Has the second coming occurred already?

[Aerials1978]

We have plenty to learn and plenty to help people along the way. I want to take as many people to heaven as I can. I want to do as much as I can to help people receive the comfort that God has for them.

You’re correct, there is more work to be done. Sometimes people are so beaten down they just want to go home(Be with the Lord)Even the prophet Elijah wanted to just lay down and die. Alas though, the Lord gave him strength. “Get up and eat, for the journey is long.”

 

[NOV25]

Some sects of Christianity believe that Christ’s second coming had already occurred. This is in conjunction with the Olivet Discourse and specifically with chapter 24 from Matthew’s Gospel(Christ returned around 70 AD prior to the destruction of Jerusalem). Is there validation to any of this? Is there any historical evidence to support such? Has the revelation of Christs second coming being a future event based on tradition and misinterpretation? Is Preterism correct?

Thoughts?

I don't know anyone who believes this. What do these folks believe about the time we're living in now and what is to come?

 

[JohnR7]

What do these folks believe about the time we're living in now and what is to come?

This is the time of the great harvest at the end of the church age. They talk about a billion people getting saved. Some believe this is more people than what is currently in Heaven. There will be more power at the end of this age then there was at the beginning. Even Moses tells us the latter rain will be greater: "I will provide rain for your land in season, the autumn and spring rains, that you may gather your grain, new wine, and oil." (Deut 11:14)

 

[massorite]

Some sects of Christianity believe that Christ’s second coming had already occurred. This is in conjunction with the Olivet Discourse and specifically with chapter 24 from Matthew’s Gospel(Christ returned around 70 AD prior to the destruction of Jerusalem). Is there validation to any of this? Is there any historical evidence to support such? Has the revelation of Christs second coming being a future event based on tradition and misinterpretation? Is Preterism correct?

Thoughts?

Preterist's believe that Christ has already returned for the second time and when I was researching the early church history and events I found that the only two end time doctrinal beliefs were the Preterist and the Mid-Trib beliefs. The Pre-Trib doctrine did not exist until the 1830's. The preterist doctrine is wrong for many reasons. The "The time of Trouble" spoken of in the book of Dan. 12:1 tells us the "Trouble" will be so bad that it will be greater then any other "Time of Trouble" before the was a nation.
Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
The trouble that occured in Israel only took place in Israel and the main slaughter took place in Jerusalem and there were only about 600,000 people trapped in Jerusalem and not all of them dies. But compared to WW2 when the war encompassed the entire world and more then 6,000,000 Jews were murdered by a number of methods the trouble for Israel in 70 AD is very small in comparison. So there has been a much greater time of trouble since 70 AD.
The same with Matt 24:21.
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Take notice that this verse says " nor ever shall be" this means that there will never be another time of trouble ever again. Yet the tribulation during WW2 was far more tribulation for the whole world and especially the Jewish people then there was in and around 70 AD.
There is more proof that the Preterist doctrinal belief is wrong but this should be enough to proof.

 

[garee]

What if the Temple is where Christ will be seated during His 1000 reign? I’m not understanding this hostility you seem to have about it. After all Zechariah proclaims:

It is he who will build the temple of the LORD, and he will be clothed with majesty and will sit and rule on his throne. And he will be a priest on his throne. And there will be harmony between the two.'
Zechariah 6:13

I would think that prophetic parable as a vision of the unseen glory of God helps us to understand why during the reformation while the government of God was being restored according as it is written in the law and the prophets. The bible God's written law alone. .

The period of time set aside as a parable for the time period was restored to a period before there were kings in Israel. A pagan foundation that walked by sight . Men lording it over the faith of others. diving the nations men lording it over woman .Woman not allowed to participate in the ceremonies or mingle with the gentiles. Walking by sight as if the kingdom of God was of this world .

We as new creatures are the temple a kingdom of priests from all nations, men and woman alike. Just as in the period of Judges. Marked as last days. Christians are the temple . We can have that treasure in us the power of God who works in us both to will and do his good pleasure can send men out in these earthen bodies . I would think one of the better things that accompanies salvation.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

It would seem to be the conclusion of Zechariah 6:13 . A kingdom of priests as ambassadors like during the time of Judges sent from a foreign land . Like God said to Samuel; "Its not you they are rejecting as King but me". A kingdom not of this world .One that comes by faith the unseen eternal glory.

Come and build in . . . .not build with hands. (the abomination of desolation).

Zechariah 6:15 And they that are far off shall come and build in the temple of the Lord, and ye shall know that the Lord of hosts hath sent me unto you. And this shall come to pass, if ye will diligently obey the voice of the Lord your God.

In the new heavens and earth there will be none .

And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.Revelation21:22-23

 

[garee]

A temple built with human hands as a abomination of desolation was never the intention of God to begin with .

Using the time period of forty years in the wilderness. That period of time of testing or trial was used as a parable of conversion and us entering the promised eternal land. It used a temporal temple that was moved constantly along with with 2 million people. Like the manna used to represent the word of God it stopped when they received the goal.

The idea of the second permanent was given with Kings in Israel, a pagan foundation.This is when God turned the faithless Jews over to do that which they should not of desired.They became jealous of the surrounding pagan nations. That showed they wanted not part in worshiping God a unseen as King. A law in respect to a temple which was broken by the first generation after. Solomon is shown going after the gods of the pagan religions. It would seem his eye was on the sparrow and not the unseen God who feeds us. Rather than building bigger barns as temples he should of built faith on the wisdom that was given . Not mixing faith he had no rest sabbath a marked man ..

It took the Son of man, Jesus to fulfill that shadow "the man of peace" . The reason David the man of war could not built it. We are the temple.

It could not be build with human hands as if the corrupted flesh and blood could profit for something. God is simply not served by human hands in any way shape or form

 

[Aerials1978]

A temple built with human hands as a abomination of desolation was never the intention of God to begin with .

Using the time period of forty years in the wilderness. That period of time of testing or trial was used as a parable of conversion and us entering the promised eternal land. It used a temporal temple that was moved constantly along with with 2 million people. Like the manna used to represent the word of God it stopped when they received the goal.

The idea of the second permanent was given with Kings in Israel, a pagan foundation.This is when God turned the faithless Jews over to do that which they should not of desired.They became jealous of the surrounding pagan nations. That showed they wanted not part in worshiping God a unseen as King. A law in respect to a temple which was broken by the first generation after. Solomon is shown going after the gods of the pagan religions. It would seem his eye was on the sparrow and not the unseen God who feeds us. Rather than building bigger barns as temples he should of built faith on the wisdom that was given . Not mixing faith he had no rest sabbath a marked man ..

It took the Son of man, Jesus to fulfill that shadow "the man of peace" . The reason David the man of war could not built it. We are the temple.

It could not be build with human hands as if the corrupted flesh and blood could profit for something. God is simply not served by human hands in any way shape or form

So was the temple that Solomon built served by human hands?

 

[bojack]

So was the temple that Solomon built served by human hands?

Solomon's temple was also a two fold prophesy , imo ..
17 And it was in the heart of David my father to build an house for the name of the LORD God of Israel.
18 And the LORD said unto David my father, Whereas it was in thine heart to build an house unto my name, thou didst well that it was in thine heart.
19 Nevertheless thou shalt not build the house; but thy son that shall come forth out of thy loins, he shall build the house unto my name.

 

[Jimbone]

What about, instead of thinking in terms of the temple referred to as a physical structure after Jesus' second coming, what if, since Jesus was/is God, the temple being referred to is the entire planet as the foundation for the temple itself. And that temple is all people who live with both their hearts and minds on God. Because we today as indwelt Christians are, as scripture tells us, the temple of the Holy.
Therefore, what if the temple is the world's people all as that one fold, flock, that Jesus spoke of in the New Testament. It's not a structure of brick and mortar, but rather is a structure made by God and alive in the spirit of God.

Honestly I think this is a great description of what Gods kingdom is truly. The point I'm trying to make here is not this, I believe right now just like the mustard seed, that by His Spirit everything is being put under Him in this way, but I do not believe this is what the scriptures are speaking of in all these verses dealing with the abomination of desolation, the judgement on the covenant breakers, and the end of the age are speaking of. I believe the temple spoken of in all these verses is clearly the earthly, physical temple of God, and believe that it's destruction brought the end of that age and ushered in His kingdom that would rein forever, know no end, and make all Him enemies a footstool for His feet. I believe this is where we are and that we are called to make disciples of all nations, to proclaim the good news of out Kings redemption of the world for His glory, and what awesome glory it is.

I also believe that the very idea of this event happening in the future poses a HUGE problem for the idea that this is to happen in the future for the main reason that in order to have "God's temple" on earth in the very specific way written in scripture, you have to have God commanding it built which in it's self would be a step backward from already having everything "finished". All this is in my previous comments, but I believe what you just said that we are now the temples for His Spirit on earth, by His grace praise Jesus might name, THE name above every name, Praise Jesus the name of the Lord!!!!!!!!!

 

[garee]

So was the temple that Solomon built served by human hands?

I think entering the promised land put a end to the use of a temple seen . As a shadow in the wilderness it was used as a parable to represent the promised land. This was in order to teach them how to walk by faith .Unlike the pagan kingdoms of the world .(No faith of Christ's word )

I don't think it was the idea of God to build another as if he was served by human hands, as a mind. .

It seems he turned them over to do that which they should not desired. . .a pagan form of government (no faith) outward fleshy representative.

God told Samuel it was not him they were rejecting as King but were rejecting walking by faith after a unseen King of kings and Lord of lords. The time of reformation came and restored the order to a government by the faith of our unseen God as the unseen glory . In the new heavens and earth .That glory will replace the temporal under the Sun .

There will be no temple there .

In that way we are never to glory in the museum relics or historical places, the temporal things seen.

And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. Revelation;22-23

 

[Jimbone]

Preterist's believe that Christ has already returned for the second time and when I was researching the early church history and events I found that the only two end time doctrinal beliefs were the Preterist and the Mid-Trib beliefs. The Pre-Trib doctrine did not exist until the 1830's. The preterist doctrine is wrong for many reasons. The "The time of Trouble" spoken of in the book of Dan. 12:1 tells us the "Trouble" will be so bad that it will be greater then any other "Time of Trouble" before the was a nation.
Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
The trouble that occured in Israel only took place in Israel and the main slaughter took place in Jerusalem and there were only about 600,000 people trapped in Jerusalem and not all of them dies. But compared to WW2 when the war encompassed the entire world and more then 6,000,000 Jews were murdered by a number of methods the trouble for Israel in 70 AD is very small in comparison. So there has been a much greater time of trouble since 70 AD.
The same with Matt 24:21.
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Take notice that this verse says " nor ever shall be" this means that there will never be another time of trouble ever again. Yet the tribulation during WW2 was far more tribulation for the whole world and especially the Jewish people then there was in and around 70 AD.
There is more proof that the Preterist doctrinal belief is wrong but this should be enough to proof.

I think what you're asserting as fact here is simply opinion really, and I disagree that the number of dead alone are what qualify it to be "worse", were there any reports of women eating their own children in WW2? Or streets literally flowing with blood? I'm not just trying to be argumentative or to disagree just to "be right", or anything like that, but to point out that I don't think it's a very good argument that "more dead = worse tribulation", in my opinion. But I have to admit I don't exactly have a solid argument that it was worse either, but if what I believe is true then it would mean it would have to be. Regardless a very well thought out and presented case though. Appreciated brother.

 

[Dino246]

I think entering the promised land put a end to the use of a temple seen . As a shadow in the wilderness it was used as a parable to represent the promised land. This was in order to teach them how to walk by faith .Unlike the pagan kingdoms of the world .(No faith of Christ's word )

I don't think it was the idea of God to build another as if he was served by human hands, as a mind. .

It seems he turned them over to do that which they should not desired. . .a pagan form of government (no faith) outward fleshy representative.

God told Samuel it was not him they were rejecting as King but were rejecting walking by faith after a unseen King of kings and Lord of lords. The time of reformation came and restored the order to a government by the faith of our unseen God as the unseen glory . In the new heavens and earth .That glory will replace the temporal under the Sun .

There will be no temple there .

In that way we are never to glory in the museum relics or historical places, the temporal things seen.

And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. Revelation;22-23

The temple did not exist until AFTER the Israelites had been IN the promised land for several hundred years!

And of course, it's NOT a parable!

 

[bojack]

The Temple was built in part to house the Ark and it went missing since right before the fall to babylon, Jesus replaced the Ark .. I believe Ron Wyatt may have found the Ark and the temple rebuild Rabbis have it but it's been replaced by Jesus ..

 

[bojack]

Who started that preterist pov anyway ?

 

[massorite]

I think what you're asserting as fact here is simply opinion really, and I disagree that the number of dead alone are what qualify it to be "worse", were there any reports of women eating their own children in WW2? Or streets literally flowing with blood? I'm not just trying to be argumentative or to disagree just to "be right", or anything like that, but to point out that I don't think it's a very good argument that "more dead = worse tribulation", in my opinion. But I have to admit I don't exactly have a solid argument that it was worse either, but if what I believe is true then it would mean it would have to be. Regardless a very well thought out and presented case though. Appreciated brother.

Couldn't find any reports of women eating their own babies during WW2 but cannibalism did exist in the concentration camps and the Warsaw ghetto.
A British Holocaust survivor described how cannibalism was “rampant” among Jewish inmates at the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp, in a compensation claim released by the National Archives this week.
Harold Le Druillenec, the only British survivor found at the camp at the end of the war, said: “Jungle law reigned among the prisoners; at night you killed or were killed; by day cannibalism was rampant.”
British academics corroborated the gruesome account. Holocaust expert Prof. Dan Stone at Royal Holloway, University of London, said: “Sources indicate that cannibalism did indeed take place during the last phase of Belsen’s existence… It is referred to in a number of sources from the time and later.”

It wasn't the number of dead even though I pointed that out. It was the amount of suffering at the hands of the Nazis that was directed at the Jewish people of Europe. They were just ripped out of their lives and sent to concentration camps where they were forced into slave labor, the starving, murdering, the separation of families, the torturing and so much more misery then the world had ever seen inflicted on a people in so many countries.
As for the rest of what I spoke about, I got it all from books and research and it is not my opinion. I put a lot of research into the posts I put on here. When I am posting I have my research tools sitting right beside me so I can quickly look stuff up.
Thanks for the compliment.

 

[garee]

The temple did not exist until AFTER the Israelites had been IN the promised land for several hundred years!

And of course, it's NOT a parable!

Of course not. I know, what would fairly tales as bedtime stories have to do with prophecy. God's word, our new tongue.

The tabernacle was used in the parable in Exodus.it was the design of God as a temporal place to represent the unseen eternal place .The real promised land not under the Sun .The holy unseen place of God's glory .Using parables to teach them as well as us how to walk by faith the unseen eternal.

Like manna it as a shadow came to fulfillment when they reached the promised land. The one built with human hands came about when God gave over the faithless Jew to do that which they should not of when they rejected walking by faith according to a invisible King . So did the time period when there were kings in Israel signified as a pagan form of worship .

Two time periods used as a parable to teach us how to walk by faith.

How could anything be a parable with understanding if you liberalize the understanding rather than walking by faith according to the prescription given ?

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

From my experience many make the reformation(1st century) without effect by destroying the context of the parable.
As if we are still waiting for the one time demonstration of the lamb of God. Making the doctrine of the abomination of desolation without effect.Even the Son of man Jesus refused to stand in the Holy place of the father when accused of being the Good Master. Jesus said; "one is Good God as the Father". Nothing is credited to the corrupted flesh of His Son

The Holy Ghost this signifying, (using the temporal things seen to represent the unseen eternal) that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Which was a figure (parable) for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.Hebrews 9: 8-10

 

[Dino246]

Of course not. I know, what would fairly tales as bedtime stories have to do with prophecy. God's word, our new tongue.

The tabernacle was used in the parable in Exodus.it was the design of God as a temporal place to represent the unseen eternal place .The real promised land not under the Sun .The holy unseen place of God's glory .Using parables to teach them as well as us how to walk by faith the unseen eternal.

Like manna it as a shadow came to fulfillment when they reached the promised land. The one built with human hands came about when God gave over the faithless Jew to do that which they should not of when they rejected walking by faith according to a invisible King . So did the time period when there were kings in Israel signified as a pagan form of worship .

Two time periods used as a parable to teach us how to walk by faith.

These things you call parables are not parables. Real historical events simply are not parables. They may prefigure something coming later, as did both the tabernacle and the temple, but they are not parables.

How could anything be a parable with understanding if you liberalize the understanding rather than walking by faith according to the prescription given ?

You keep accusing me of not walking by faith. You don't know me, and despite interacting with me for well over a year, you have learned very little about me. You haven't a hot clue about my faith.

 

[bojack]

These things you call parables are not parables. Real historical events simply are not parables. They may prefigure something coming later, as did both the tabernacle and the temple, but they are not parables.


You keep accusing me of not walking by faith. You don't know me, and despite interacting with me for well over a year, you have learned very little about me. You haven't a hot clue about my faith.

First off, I seem to have been cut-off from answering or posting so if I didn't give likes or replies the last few days it's because I couldn't ..

I agree about real events not being parables .. IMO If the story has specific names, places, measurements it is not a parable but a real event , but that doesn't make a parable any less true ..

 

[garee]

These things you call parables are not parables. Real historical events simply are not parables. They may prefigure something coming later, as did both the tabernacle and the temple, but they are not parables.


You keep accusing me of not walking by faith. You don't know me, and despite interacting with me for well over a year, you have learned very little about me. You haven't a hot clue about my faith.

I think I have some clues. No one walks perfectly other than Jesus. . Resisting the authority of parables would be one, or down playing its role in teaching us how to walk by faith, the unseen eternal .

Just as the apostles in Luke 9 resisted when Jesus hid the unseen gospel understanding .And after three times rebuked them and declared ; "you know not what manner of spirit you are of".

Seeing you say parables cannot move a person by faith. They are just stories with endings. What manner of spirit was that in verse 55 by which Christ rebuked the apostles?

For a while you simply denied parables as prophecy as you do with tongues the gospel language. Which is common for those who literalize the signified understanding .Like the the Book of Revelation .Inspired and signified.

Real historical events simply are used as parables . They prefigured the now. A pagan form of government until the time of reformation. .

 

[garee]

First off, I seem to have been cut-off from answering or posting so if I didn't give likes or replies the last few days it's because I couldn't ..

I agree about real events not being parables .. IMO If the story has specific names, places, measurements it is not a parable but a real event , but that doesn't make a parable any less true ..

I would agree. The real event comes along side and is mixed with faith the unseen. In the end of the matter it gives us the chaste virgin bride, the church, the hidden gospel understanding called hidden manna.. the bread of unfamiliarity, the will of God, our daily bread .