Demons in our Church.

[Blik]

Moses heard God's voice, and that voice gave us the eternal laws. They are eternal and as factual as our beautiful land is a fact. Moses also gave us the rites to perform as man was learning to obey these laws that lead to life and beauty.

Moses also gave us the rituals to perform to remind us of these eternal laws, and man decided that obeying the rites were as good as obeying the laws they were to lead to. Scripture has called them the laws of Moses. They are not the eternal laws, and when these rites were misused by man as God's eternal law, God took these rites away.

In a different way, you are getting the rites and the eternal laws mixed up so you don't even know what sin is. We are to take our sin to Christ to be cleared from our life, but your misunderstanding of the rites and the eternal laws of God means you don't know about sin at all but are all mixed up.

 

[Whispered]

Are you actually telling us that if we want to live following Christ we are Judaizing as scripture tells us not to do?

This thread is about Demons in the church after all.

 

[Whispered]

It certainly doesn't go the way the "judaizer" band of accusers claim of it.
And it isn't worth the effort at a keyboard to repeat the facts of why that is because it does not get through the bigotry and the ignorance concerning scripture, Jesus, Jesus' teachings concerning the law and those parts He stated are still in effect, as the judaizer band of accusers ignore the fact the first Christians observed not only the Sabbath, but kept those parts of the law that Jesus taught would still be in effect, etc...
I'll just wait till the judaizer band of accusers face God and where they shall answer for every word that contradicted Christ. No amount of facts repeated ad nausea on a forum is going to ever get through. But that will. And for all time. Amen.

 

[gb9]

It certainly doesn't go the way the "judaizer" band of accusers claim of it.
And it isn't worth the effort at a keyboard to repeat the facts of why that is because it does not get through the bigotry and the ignorance concerning scripture, Jesus, Jesus' teachings concerning the law and those parts He stated are still in effect, as the judaizer band of accusers ignore the fact the first Christians observed not only the Sabbath, but kept those parts of the law that Jesus taught would still be in effect, etc...
I'll just wait till the judaizer band of accusers face God and where they shall answer for every word that contradicted Christ. No amount of facts repeated ad nausea on a forum is going to ever get through. But that will. And for all time. Amen.

ignorance huh?

I have read the Bible all the way through over 20 times, I understand what it says and what it does not say.

I understand the old and new covenants.

what I do not understand is why do you and bilk refuse to read and comment on what God told Moses in Lev. 26 about whom were under what Covenant.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Moses heard God's voice, and that voice gave us the eternal laws. They are eternal and as factual as our beautiful land is a fact. Moses also gave us the rites to perform as man was learning to obey these laws that lead to life and beauty.

Moses also gave us the rituals to perform to remind us of these eternal laws, and man decided that obeying the rites were as good as obeying the laws they were to lead to. Scripture has called them the laws of Moses. They are not the eternal laws, and when these rites were misused by man as God's eternal law, God took these rites away.

In a different way, you are getting the rites and the eternal laws mixed up so you don't even know what sin is. We are to take our sin to Christ to be cleared from our life, but your misunderstanding of the rites and the eternal laws of God means you don't know about sin at all but are all mixed up.

the confused writing a confusing post in order to explain how they are not confused

you cannot make this stuff up

 

[Locoponydirtman]

To follow Christ is to abandon Moses. You can't have it both ways.

I disagree, and I'm not even a legalist. We don't abandon the law. We learn law and gospel and how they relate and what they are to each other.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I disagree, and I'm not even a legalist. We don't abandon the law. We learn law and gospel and how they relate and what they are to each other.

Well then you are disagreeing with Paul, and ultimately with Christ, who has given "the truth of the Gospel".

THE LAW OF MOSES (INCLUDING CIRCUMCISION) WOULD BE BONDAGE TO THE CHRISTIAN
But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:
And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the Gospel might continue with you. (Gal 2:3-5)

PETER REBUKED FOR BEING IN BONDAGE AND BRINGING OTHERS INTO BONDAGE
But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the Gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? (Gal 2:14)

 

[Whispered]

Sadly, the screaming Judaizer bunch don't believe in sin either. Can't, if they hold to there being no law no more.

What they don't understand and refuse to in fact is, there is no conflict between Jesus teaching to keep the Laws and Saul/Paul doing the same.
Taking scripture out of context isn't proper Exegesis. It is an end run around the truth.
The Epistle of Saul to the Romans chapter 3:31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yes, we establish the law.

They shall live as they see fit. God sees everything and did not waste His breath when He would say, here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Well then you are disagreeing with Paul, and ultimately with Christ, who has given "the truth of the Gospel".

THE LAW OF MOSES (INCLUDING CIRCUMCISION) WOULD BE BONDAGE TO THE CHRISTIAN
But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:
And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the Gospel might continue with you. (Gal 2:3-5)

PETER REBUKED FOR BEING IN BONDAGE AND BRINGING OTHERS INTO BONDAGE
But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the Gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? (Gal 2:14)

Learn what they mean now. Like the circumcision made without hands, and Sabbath rest in Christ is Jesus himself and the rest he gives, and other such concepts, Like how to love your neighbor. For example in the law there is what to do if your ox gores, this can be applies to how to keep your pets from harming your neighbors. There is a lot to learn from the law. Another example the law says that if a child dishonours his parents take him to the city gates and stone him, so now we know that if we don't raise our children to honour their parents we have spiritually condemned them because we haven't raised them in the admonishment of the Lord. So while the law is fulfilled and we live under grace the law is now still present only transformed under grace. Commandments have become beatitudes.

 

[pottersclay]

Learn what they mean now. Like the circumcision made without hands, and Sabbath rest in Christ is Jesus himself and the rest he gives, and other such concepts, Like how to love your neighbor. For example in the law there is what to do if your ox gores, this can be applies to how to keep your pets from harming your neighbors. There is a lot to learn from the law. Another example the law says that if a child dishonours his parents take him to the city gates and stone him, so now we know that if we don't raise our children to honour their parents we have spiritually condemned them because we haven't raised them in the admonishment of the Lord. So while the law is fulfilled and we live under grace the law is now still present only transformed under grace. Commandments have become beatitudes.

What a breath of fresh air.
If Jesus is the word made flesh then wouldn't that include the law? Of course it does. And not one jot or tittle shall be added or taken untill all is fulfilled.

 

[JeremiahsCup]

You guys do realize that the demons are the pagan "gods", right? Demons are intimately connected to non-Christian religions. Every single non-Christian worships a demon either knowingly or unknowingly. The book of Acts chapter 19 is the definitive guide about demons. The entire chapter takes one through the various ways demons take over a society, what they are connected to (idols and witchcraft), exorcism, and mass pandemonium.

If your churches are full of demons then you must get rid of the idols and get rid of the doctrines of witchcraft that your church is practicing. Though just like in Acts the frenzied mob may not take to that truth so well, in which case it is better for you to just abandon them and just wait for the Lord God to utterly destroy that building.

 

[Blik]

Christ made it so clear what judaizing is and why it has been taken away. The man praying in a long robe and making a show of law obedience but not obeying the law at all is a perfect example of a jjudaizer. It is of the devil that people preach lawlessness as Godly.

 

[Dino246]

Sadly, the screaming Judaizer bunch don't believe in sin either. Can't, if they hold to there being no law no more.

What they don't understand and refuse to in fact is, there is no conflict between Jesus teaching to keep the Laws and Saul/Paul doing the same.

Christ made it so clear what judaizing is and why it has been taken away. The man praying in a long robe and making a show of law obedience but not obeying the law at all is a perfect example of a jjudaizer. It is of the devil that people preach lawlessness as Godly.

Frankly, neither of you seems to know what a Judaizer is.

Jesus never called anyone a Judaizer, nor did He directly say or hint anything about the subject. The word doesn't even appear in Scripture. Rather, it is the word later applied to the enemies of the gospel who sought to force gentile Christians to follow the laws given to ethnic Israel through Moses. These misguided people were frequent opposers of Paul and did much damage in the early Church. Paul dealt with the issue directly in Galatians, where the people had been misguided by Judaizers and were turning back to following the letter of the law instead of moving forward in faith.

If you're going to discuss the subject, at least use the term properly.

 

[Whispered]

You guys do realize that the demons are the pagan "gods", right? Demons are intimately connected to non-Christian religions. Every single non-Christian worships a demon either knowingly or unknowingly. The book of Acts chapter 19 is the definitive guide about demons. The entire chapter takes one through the various ways demons take over a society, what they are connected to (idols and witchcraft), exorcism, and mass pandemonium.

If your churches are full of demons then you must get rid of the idols and get rid of the doctrines of witchcraft that your church is practicing. Though just like in Acts the frenzied mob may not take to that truth so well, in which case it is better for you to just abandon them and just wait for the Lord God to utterly destroy that building.

You don't realize the Bible refers to Demons. They're also referred to as, unclean spirits.

And no, pagan god's and goddesses were not Demons. They were cast into that role by the church that entered into pagan lands and sought to destroy the old Polytheistic ways by any means necessary, in order to introduce their Monotheism. There was also not a "Devil" in the old pagan ways.

There's an old saying that that practice enabled to become an old saying; The god's of the old religion become the devil's of the new.

 

[NBC_Intern_2020]

First post outside of my own thread, so hey.
I could write a long paragraph about how the whole "following Christ means you can't follow Moses" is both wrong and right at the same time, but I'll just say something simple.
Ok guys, look. No, you can't just do both at the same time. You just cant, it nearly conflicts with itself and any non Christian theists will be quick to point that out. But in fact, you don't need to abandon anyone. In the New Testament, throughout many verses is it talked about how the old is made new. A common misconception is that this is only for humans. It applies for nearly everything, actually. The spiritual laws of Moses were made into newer, better laws that we are to follow. Basically, while we are still meant to obey the laws of Moses, we need to do so in the way of Christ.
DM me if you disagree and we can have a friendly debate about it in which I provide massive biblical evidence as I drink hot chocolate and do homework. I love debates (not arguments, and any kind of debate) by the way and I could go on forever. So, for anything, even politics, come and talk to me.
Also, if you're having dreams and you don't know what they mean, describe them to me in a DM and I can interpret them for you, or rather just give you the interpretation from God, just as he did for Joseph.

 

[JeremiahsCup]

You don't realize the Bible refers to Demons. They're also referred to as, unclean spirits.

And no, pagan god's and goddesses were not Demons. They were cast into that role by the church that entered into pagan lands and sought to destroy the old Polytheistic ways by any means necessary, in order to introduce their Monotheism. There was also not a "Devil" in the old pagan ways.

There's an old saying that that practice enabled to become an old saying; The god's of the old religion become the devil's of the new.

No, the false "gods" of the non-Christians were always demons. The followers of the One True God always knew this.

Deuteronomy 32:16-17
16 They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger.

17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.

1 Corinthians 10:20-21
20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.

21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.

 

[Whispered]

No, the false "gods" of the non-Christians were always demons. The followers of the One True God always knew this.

Deuteronomy 32:16-17
16 They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger.

17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.

1 Corinthians 10:20-21
20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.

21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.

That's what I said. The gods and goddesses of the old ways were demonized by the Monotheists. That was a manufacture in the Monotheists mind.
There was no such entity, entities, in those pagan ways.
And you do realize? "Gentiles", translates as Nations. Not, pagans.
Those who were not following The Way, were condemned by Saul/Paul as those who sacrifice to devils. That doesn't make it true. That makes it Saul/Paul's conceptualization in order to condemn you, and me! Before you or I accepted Christ. Does that put it into better perspective?

How about this? The early "Jews" were Polytheists.

 

[JeremiahsCup]

That's what I said. The gods and goddesses of the old ways were demonized by the Monotheists. That was a manufacture in the Monotheists mind.
There was no such entity, entities, in those pagan ways.
And you do realize? "Gentiles", translates as Nations. Not, pagans.
Those who were not following The Way, were condemned by Saul/Paul as those who sacrifice to devils. That doesn't make it true. That makes it Saul/Paul's conceptualization in order to condemn you, and me! Before you or I accepted Christ. Does that put it into better perspective?

How about this? The early "Jews" were Polytheists.

No, the non-Christians worship demons, their false "gods" did not become demonized. Rather they were demons from the start, that's just what they've always been.

No, the early Jews were no polytheists. The early Jews believed in the One True God, the God of their father Israel.

 

[Whispered]

No, the non-Christians worship demons, their false "gods" did not become demonized. Rather they were demons from the start, that's just what they've always been.

No, the early Jews were no polytheists. The early Jews believed in the One True God, the God of their father Israel.

Believe as you wish.

 

[Aerials1978]

Romans chapter 7. That gives clarification with regards to the Law. As for Demons, they are ever present. Has Lucifer directly effect pastors, reverends, priests, etc? Yes. In too many ways to count.