The Doctrinal Belief of a Pre-Tribulation Resurrection. Is not spoken of in the Word of God. It was created by a sick and deranged woman

[Absolutely]

Yes, in essence, that's all you can do.

I worked in jail ministry and the head chaplain was Pentecostal. It was obvious that he believed non-Pentecostals are inferior. I find it very hard to work in a parachurch ministry with individuals who believe these sorts of things.

I asked him directly what he thought on this, and he used elusive language and told me he thought I would accept the truth when I was ready for it

All the while we listen to baptists (apparently) who put down and mock charismatics?

Pssst....that is called superiority. Heiarchy and by nature us defective ones are "inferior"

Wow you can not make this stuff up.
Rich indeed

 

[Absolutely]

Actually your missing a very important point about the ten virgins.
Mat 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
Mat 25:7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
All of the ten virgins knew who Christ was and all of ten virgins went out to meet Christ. This shows that all ten knew who Christ was and all ten virgins expected to be able to go with the Groom. The parable is not talking about non believers here it is talking about believers and when they realized that they had been left behind they banged on the door and begged to be let in.
Mat 25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. Notice here that the five foolish virgins did at one time have oil in their lamps did once glow just as the 5 wise virgins lamps did.
Some got to go in and others did not. Which lines up with Daniel 12:2.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that SLEEP IN THE DUST OF THE EARTH SHALL AWAKEN, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Only those who are saved will rise from the dust of the earth but not all will go to everlasting life.

"But maybe you haven't read where ALL TAKE THE MARK?"
Actually I have spend about 8 years alone studing the book of Revelation.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Here we can see that there will be saints on the earth during the time the antichrist is on the earth. Why ?? Because the antichrist will "make war with the saints"
This means that we will have a choice to receive the mark of the beast or to reject it and this is why the antichrist will make war against us. Because we did not comply to his demands of worshiping him and the saints refused to take the mark. The word "all" in these scripture is considered an "in general" word just like it is used in verse 8.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
So Rev. 13:18 proves that not all will who are on the earth will worship the beast. Even though the word "all" is used in verse 16 we know from verse 8 that the saints that are on the earth at that time will not receive that mark of the beast or worship him.
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
This is why God has given us a warning at the end of this chapter for us to be wise and not to be foolish like the 5 foolish virgins. We will be here for a period of great tribulation.
You said "In the parable of the virgins,the wise were wise due to oil" The oil doesn't have anything to do with their wisdom and everything to do with their anointing. The oil represents the anointing of Christ.

Lol
There was no false groom in the mix with the virgins.
You arbitrarily made that up.

Then you leave out "..and overcome them"
Hello...he kills them
Are you actually unaware of the slaughter?
The ac acts fairly quickly at the BEGINNING of the gt.
The mark COMES in EARLY.

You seem to minimize the ac.
Fact...millions/ billions die.
Early in the gt we see those martyrs as the INNUMERABLE number.
It must be billions if heaven uses "innumerable"

Plus there are no postrib rapture verses. Not a single one.
Nada

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

All the while we listen to baptists (apparently) who put down and mock charismatics?

Pssst....that is called superiority. Heiarchy and by nature us defective ones are "inferior"

Wow you can not make this stuff up.
Rich indeed

I don't understand your points.

But, let me ask this..do you deny that Pentecostals commonly teach that "tongues" should be something that every Christian exhibits?

And, do you deny that those who pray in tongues believe that their communication with God is better than non-tongues speakers?

If so, then why do you find fault with my remarks?

 

[Absolutely]

"For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. "

The Tribulation period is God pouring out His wrath, how is it that those who are His suffer these things when we are not appointed to His wrath?

Exactly.
It is jacobs/Israel's trouble.
Jesus comes for his bride.
That is the rapture.
The ac kills the fence sitters.
Jesus gathers the 144k and the "ripe fruit" of rev 14.
They are the last.
Remember at the first miracle "you saved the best for last"
Then the feast in heaven.
All his people come to the feast.
Postribs are so mired in seeing Jesus bullwhip his bride most all the goodness and joy of the reunion in heaven is COMPLETLY scrubbed from the bible.
I find that very sad for them.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

""The five foolish virgins were not watching their spiritual condition""
Bingo. You got one right.
Then you proceed to go on with nonsense about "dispensations" as if some it's some bogeyman
You are mired there

Dispensationalism is why dispensationalists believe in the pretribulation rapture.

They believe the Church will be taken out of the world prior to the Great Tribulation.

Why? Because they believe, in essence, that the Church age is a parenthesis that was, more or less, accidental. Israel refused its' Messiah, therefore the prophetic clock stopped ticking for them, and the Church age begun. The prophetic clock starts ticking again at the Rapture, and God begins working with them again.

Somehow, though, Israel becomes a nation during the church age, even though God supposedly isn't working with them in this dispensation.

I don't think the young lady who had delusions about the Rapture was dispensationalist, though. Somehow the dispensationalists incorporated her beliefs into their system, much like the cult leader I followed, who borrowed teachings from other groups.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

By the way, folks, Bruce Gore has a good set of church history videos dealing with this topic of dispensationalism, which directly impacts the pretribulation rapture, as it is their doctrine that is the foundation of the teaching. There is a progression from the Millerites to the dispensationalists which is very interesting.

And, before someone accuses him of being ignorant, he taught at Moody Bible Institute, which is one of the primary sources of dispensationalism teaching in the USA. He realized the problems with dispensationalism and left eventually.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Here's another set of teachings by an articulate ex-dispensationalist pastor, Brian Borgman that explains its history:

https://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=126101523139
https://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=126101519187
https://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=126101510492

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

""The five foolish virgins were not watching their spiritual condition""
Bingo. You got one right.
Then you proceed to go on with nonsense about "dispensations" as if some it's some bogeyman
You are mired there

As I have said, dispensationalism is the root of the pretribulation rapture teaching.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

The bible says ALL TAKE THE MARK. every man woman and child.

This appears to be REVELATION 13:16 that you are referring to.

Back up to REVELATION 13:8, it clearly states "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life. Plainly indicating that those who names are in the book of life will neither receive the mark nor worship the beast. And if those whose names are in the book of life are not on the earth at this time, then why even mention it?

But then REVELATION 14:13 reads "Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth". According to what you are implying, no one will be on earth to die in the Lord since everyone would have taken the mark. Those who die are the saints who choose execution rather than receiving the mark. After this the sickle of the harvest is mentioned at REVELATION 14:15. This is where the dead who refused to receive the mark, but got beheaded, are raised from the dead first (1 THESSALONIANS 4:16). Those that managed to flee from the persecution of refusing the mark, who did not take the mark themselves, are alive and get caught up to meet the Lord in the air (1 THESSALONIANS 4:17). All these did not receive the mark. They are in mentioned as getting victory over the mark in REVELATION 15:2. After this the vials of the wrath of God are poured out REVELATION 16.

 

[Absolutely]

I don't understand your points.

But, let me ask this..do you deny that Pentecostals commonly teach that "tongues" should be something that every Christian exhibits?

And, do you deny that those who pray in tongues believe that their communication with God is better than non-tongues speakers?

If so, then why do you find fault with my remarks?

That dynamic is a rabbit trail.
How do you have heaven offering gifts ,power, and a virtual adventure to the walk with God. Cascading intimacy and showers of Glory beyond words and segments of the body not interested?
I was not convinced mentally of it. I was in it and at first did not receive it. I saw it. I saw what they had. I knew I did not have it. I wanted it and got alone and prayed for that what they had.
Then one Sunday as I awoke the Lord God almighty told me "today you will receive the Baptism in The Holy Spirit"
The first one (the pastor) l as I'd hands on me ...and nothing..zero.
I walked outta church not knowing what to think. I was grabbed by 2 Holy Ghost women of God and they took me back in there. When they laid their hands on me....wow all of heaven came down on me. They said begin to talk.
When I did I began speaking in tongues.
It was beyond words.
All that has subsided in the church. I see very little of the feast that was the charismatic movement.
The two swimming holes are still there.
One is awesome. One is kinda a wading pool.

It is a choice. Not superior/inferior framed

 

[Absolutely]

As I have said, dispensationalism is the root of the pretribulation rapture teaching.

Jesus placed the rapture pretrib big time.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

"

""Second, interpreters were needed concerning speaking in tongues because the audiences were mixed. ""

Lol
There are thousands of videos of evangelists preaching with interpreters.
None that I have EVER seen use 5 or 8 interpreters.

You guys didn't formulate your "interpretation" of scripture very well.
I just blew a hole in it you could sail an aircraft carrier through.
You really painted yourself in a corner.

Let's see if what the modern church full of the Holy Spirit practices is biblical.
A person delivers a POROPHECY (not a prayer) in a MEETING.
AHEM, NOBODY KNOWS WHAT WAS SPOKEN.
ONE INTERPRETS.
Thank you Jesus your word is confirmed.
(Totally biblical)
You mock it.
Nothing new.

I,as a charismatic,have heard many messages from heaven in meetings. Thousands maybe

Were all under the inspiration?
No
Were Any of them praying?
No
Singing as a congeration?
Yes
One person singing?
No

I speak from experience. My experience is CONFIRMED IN THE WORD OF GOD.

YOU find it necessary to attack and mock.
Nothing new. That component is actually confirmed also.

You are totally guessing and have the tongues you imagine in your mind as not only a known language,but also a unknown language to those receiving it.

Your deal is out of mans mind and poorly thought out.
You never thought it thought it through that if it is to evangelize some in another country there is no need for an interpreter.
Too funny

Pentecostals are all about experiences, and interpreting them in the light of their theology.

Here's a scenario that doesn't make sense to me: a roomful of blabbering, incoherent people all talking at the same time.

Here's a scenario that makes sense to me: God causes the speaker to speak in a language to a given person in the audience, who knows the language. The listener recognizes that the speaker is speaking for God into his life. A third person repeats the words of the speaker in the language of the audience.

This scenario makes sense. Mindless blabbering by Pentecostals, all speaking at once, without interpretation, makes no sense. What makes sense is someone taught them this behavior. In fact, you will find all kinds of "tongues-speakers" online trying to prime the pump, teaching others how to speak in tongues. Those videos are hilarious, by the way.

I also deny that some have a prayer language that makes them more effective in prayer than the normal believer who does not speak in tongues.

Now, deny that these practices are not commonplace in the Pentecostal world. Does your church practice orderly speaking in tongues, even by your understanding of tongues, or do you have a mass of people all blabbering at once? Is there always an interpreter for the tongues? If not, then you are at best, disobedient to the Scriptural commands concerning this practice, and likely simply practicing unbiblical things.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

That dynamic is a rabbit trail.
How do you have heaven offering gifts ,power, and a virtual adventure to the walk with God. Cascading intimacy and showers of Glory beyond words and segments of the body not interested?
I was not convinced mentally of it. I was in it and at first did not receive it. I saw it. I saw what they had. I knew I did not have it. I wanted it and got alone and prayed for that what they had.
Then one Sunday as I awoke the Lord God almighty told me "today you will receive the Baptism in The Holy Spirit"
The first one (the pastor) l as I'd hands on me ...and nothing..zero.
I walked outta church not knowing what to think. I was grabbed by 2 Holy Ghost women of God and they took me back in there. When they laid their hands on me....wow all of heaven came down on me. They said begin to talk.
When I did I began speaking in tongues.
It was beyond words.
All that has subsided in the church. I see very little of the feast that was the charismatic movement.
The two swimming holes are still there.
One is awesome. One is kinda a wading pool.

It is a choice. Not superior/inferior framed

In other words, you know that they are elitists who think that they are endowed, while others are not.

You just don't want to say it.

And, I dismiss anyone who claims God audibly spoke to him, outside of Scripture.

My view in that regards is likely 1) mental illness 2) self-delusion 3) exaggeration 4) lying 5) something else, maybe a demon, spoke to them.

Unfortunately, I believed one person concerning his claim that God spoke to him. He later proved himself undoubtedly to be susceptible to lying, sadly. Now, I can't even trust him on anything. And, by the way, he isn't a Pentecostal, but he made this claim.

Other people, after I've questioned them a bit, they modify their story about God speaking to them...perhaps their conscience is affecting them..I don't know.

Anyways, are you claiming God audibly talked to you? Do you make this claim, with full realization that you will be held accountable for every word that you speak?

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Jesus placed the rapture pretrib big time.

Prove it.

What you are interpreting as the Rapture is likely the resurrection.

At Jesus' return, the resurrection will occur. The dead will be raised, and the living faithful will be changed instantaneously.

Claiming these events is the rapture is part of the problem with dispensationalists.

 

[Absolutely]

Prove it.

What you are interpreting as the Rapture is likely the resurrection.

At Jesus' return, the resurrection will occur. The dead will be raised, and the living faithful will be changed instantaneously.

Claiming these events is the rapture is part of the problem with dispensationalists.

Noah and lot
The escape verses
The last supper dialogue
Rev 14 alongside 1 thes 4
One taken/one left.
Mat 24
Mat 25
Rev19

But hey you guys won't go there

 

[Absolutely]

In other words, you know that they are elitists who think that they are endowed, while others are not.

You just don't want to say it.

And, I dismiss anyone who claims God audibly spoke to him, outside of Scripture.

My view in that regards is likely 1) mental illness 2) self-delusion 3) exaggeration 4) lying 5) something else, maybe a demon, spoke to them.

Unfortunately, I believed one person concerning his claim that God spoke to him. He later proved himself undoubtedly to be susceptible to lying, sadly. Now, I can't even trust him on anything. And, by the way, he isn't a Pentecostal, but he made this claim.

Other people, after I've questioned them a bit, they modify their story about God speaking to them...perhaps their conscience is affecting them..I don't know.

Anyways, are you claiming God audibly talked to you? Do you make this claim, with full realization that you will be held accountable for every word that you speak?

Jesus said my sheep hear my voice.
I am a sheep.
Of course I hear his voice.
Under your template Paul was not in your correctness.
Neither was John.

 

[Absolutely]

Pentecostals are all about experiences, and interpreting them in the light of their theology.

Here's a scenario that doesn't make sense to me: a roomful of blabbering, incoherent people all talking at the same time.

Here's a scenario that makes sense to me: God causes the speaker to speak in a language to a given person in the audience, who knows the language. The listener recognizes that the speaker is speaking for God into his life. A third person repeats the words of the speaker in the language of the audience.

This scenario makes sense. Mindless blabbering by Pentecostals, all speaking at once, without interpretation, makes no sense. What makes sense is someone taught them this behavior. In fact, you will find all kinds of "tongues-speakers" online trying to prime the pump, teaching others how to speak in tongues. Those videos are hilarious, by the way.

I also deny that some have a prayer language that makes them more effective in prayer than the normal believer who does not speak in tongues.

Now, deny that these practices are not commonplace in the Pentecostal world. Does your church practice orderly speaking in tongues, even by your understanding of tongues, or do you have a mass of people all blabbering at once? Is there always an interpreter for the tongues? If not, then you are at best, disobedient to the Scriptural commands concerning this practice, and likely simply practicing unbiblical things.

""I also deny that some have a prayer language that makes them more effective in prayer than the normal believer who does not speak in tongues""
...and you would be wrong.

Paul said he edifies HIMSELF by speaking in tongues.
Paul spoke in tongues more than them all and prayed without ceasing.
What a coincidence he wrote over half of the epistles.
The net epistles were written by Spirit baptized tongue talkers to other spirit filled baptized tongue talkers.
...and a lot of it to the carnal Corinthians. Addressing a carnally walking messed up audience. Instructing them in tongues.

The bible is a spirit book.
Written to those waking in the Spirit.

 

[Absolutely]

..that is why you can not figure it out.

 

[Absolutely]

..and why you guys can't get any traction trying to justify the notion that the Holy Spirit spoke in an unknown language to an audience not realizing they could not speak Japanese but thank goodness a Egyptian was there .
Hmmm,what a novel idea.
...from man's minds.
Not even plausable

 

[Absolutely]

The "interpreter debacle "
You aren't cunning enough sir.