The Doctrinal Belief of a Pre-Tribulation Resurrection. Is not spoken of in the Word of God. It was created by a sick and deranged woman
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So you are reading this as events separated by a great span of time? 7 years perhaps?
It is not the rapture of 1 thes 4.
Here is how I see it.
I see it TOTALLY as groom//bride.
That is my starting place.
The bride is gentile and Jesus is the kinsman redeemer. Jesus has his eye on two brides. The 1st and second covenant people.
Remember how david and Jacob had to settle for a bride that was not the first pick?
But they had their eye on the first bride?
That to me is rev 14.
That is the "but you saved the best wine for last"...(his Jewish people gathered)
You're the one throwing around the insults. And they are becoming progressively worse.
I'm afraid I can't accept you as preeminently qualified to teach or interpret scripture.
Or to judge the dedication or lack thereof of others to the word.
I see, that's logical. I thought you might have been mixing up Rev 14 with Rev 7 where we see 2 distinct groups of the saved.
I think that happens to us all. One day you'll see something you've read dozens of times jump right off the page.
I think it might be Holy Spirit doing the emphasising sometimes.
This is for any position (post pre or mid)
I think we all see a resurrection coming
I think we all see a resurrection coming
So you believe the man of sin reveal before tribulation?
Where it say?
For sure rapture happen in the last trump.
1 Corinthians 15:52 King James Version (KJV)
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
The way it is described in each passage is due to the passage context; however, they are referring to the same event.
I would appreciate it very much if you would take my list from post #353 that you quoted in post #364 and tell me which verses go with which 'time-slot' as you have described above.
Are "the four winds" in the 3rd heaven?
The word 'heaven' in that verse is referring to the 1st heaven - the atmosphere - above the earth.
Anywhere else (even the 2nd heaven) would definitely require a resurrection (first) due to the fact that people cannot breathe there (as "mere mortals").
In the first phrase of the verse, Jesus sends his angels . . .
That means he commands or instructs them . . .
Jesus does in fact "gather" even if it is by and through the use of angels.
I just had to LOL when I read this. I am pretty sure that I have never heard anyone say it.
Just so you properly understand what scripture is saying...
If you read carefully, you should realize that the "twinkling of an eye" statement applies to the "change" and not the "catching up" that we call the 'rapture'.
Only one 'twinkle' is required because the "change" will happen to all - both "the dead" and "the alive" - at the same time.
Just make sure you understand what the 1st century Jewish Christians understood when they read the parenthetical statement in that verse.
If you do not understand the significance of the parenthetical statement, then you will not properly understand the full meaning of the verse.
;-)
(Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken)
(Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other)
The gathering of the elect "immediately after the tribulation of those days" shows that the elect were on earth during the days of the tribulation, and Jesus said if the great tribulation was not limited in duration the elect would have also perished - thus, however one understands the rapture it is most definitely post "great" tribulation:
(Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.)
(Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.)
(Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other)
The gathering of the elect "immediately after the tribulation of those days" shows that the elect were on earth during the days of the tribulation, and Jesus said if the great tribulation was not limited in duration the elect would have also perished - thus, however one understands the rapture it is most definitely post "great" tribulation:
(Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.)
(Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.)
I think it best to cross compare scriptures so as to know the actual message in Matthew 24.
If the elect were on the earth after the tribulation that would make no sense. Matthew 24 does not tell us the elect are on the earth. It tells us the angels of the Lord gathered the elect from on the four winds and from one end of Heaven unto the other. Heaven, one end to the other, is not Earth.
The Book of Matthew chapter 24 with cross references
So you believe rapture before tribulation for only 144 thausand.
How about this rapture
1 Corinthians 15:52 King James Version (KJV)
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
It is happen in the last trumpet, is this another rapture?
Why the first rapture only 144 thausand.
Revelation 14 King James Version (KJV)
14 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
After I read one more time this verse, I believe it is happen in thausand years kingdom
This verse doesn't prove that this 144 thausand saint rapture before trib. It only take a second to rapture
These saint . Read rev 20:4 they may not rapture at all. They back to life and reign with Jesus
Jesus or the Lamb reign from Sion
Look rev 20
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God.
They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6
Thausand years kingdom is on earth and happen after tribulation
T
14 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
After I read one more time this verse, I believe it is happen in thausand years kingdom
This verse doesn't prove that this 144 thausand saint rapture before trib. It only take a second to rapture
These saint . Read rev 20:4 they may not rapture at all. They back to life and reign with Jesus
Jesus or the Lamb reign from Sion
Look rev 20
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God.
They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6
Thausand years kingdom is on earth and happen after tribulation
T
It does make sense - the great tribulation is shortened so the elect on the "uttermost part of the earth" would not perish along with the rest of the "flesh".
In regards to the statement gathered from the four winds etc.:
(Mark 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven)
That Christ is using symbology with the four winds motif is shown in Zechariah:
(Zec 2:6 Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the north, saith the LORD: for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the heaven, saith the LORD)