Not By Works

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Tellion said:
From a man who never brags.
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If I had said I do struggle with unbelief you would have used that against me too.

"18For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon.’ 19The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’ - Matthew 11:18-19

Tellion said:
This is an assumption based on the idea that the exhortations in scriptures are there to keep us from falling out of grace. Again, I am telling you, the exhortations to be faithful to the Word of God, to believe in God, will not - W I L L N-O-T - disappear when we are holy, purified, and unable to sin, therefore proving that exhortations do not imply the possibility of FAILURE.
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The Galatians did fall from grace. That's much more than just implying the possibility of failure.

"10You are observing special days and months and seasons and years!" - Galatians 4:10
"4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace." - Galatians 5:4
 
Judges1318 said:
Depending on your beliefs about the Book of Life, perhaps more names will be blotted out of the Book than retained.
When is a person's name put in the Book of Life?

"9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. " - Romans 7:9

When does a person's name get removed from the Book of Life? When they sin? When they reject Christ (for the last time). Or when they physically die?


That is not happening. The Father does not allow that.
Believers who go back to unbelief and are turned over to that unbelief by God can't come back.
God doesn't allow it for the very reason you cite. It crucifies Christ all over again which subjects Him to open shame.
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In my personal understanding, I think that our names are written in the Book of Life when we believe on Jesus and are saved. I also think that our names are only blotted out if we deny Him, God and the HS..

Of course, I could be wrong.. :)
 
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Tellion said:
While I believe in the Spirit compelling us to do "good works", I don't believe in perfect obedience to the commandments of God.
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I've been talking about the Spirit compelling us to keep believing.
The Bible exhorts us to keep believing and to not give up on the perfect and everlasting ministry of Christ:

"14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, f Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess." - Hebrews 4:14

"23 Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful." - Hebrews 10:23

What exactly is your resistance to these plain passages of scripture?
 
blue_ladybug said:
In my personal understanding, I think that our names are written in the Book of Life when we believe on Jesus and are saved. I also think that our names are only blotted out if we deny Him, God and the HS..

Of course, I could be wrong.. :)
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I believe all names are in the book of life, and only those who do not believe on Christ will be blotted out, having fallen short.

Whoever believes on Jesus will never be blotted out having been imputed with His righteousness. (clothed in white and seen spotless, as He is)


Exodus 32:33

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.”
______

Revelation 3:5

“He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.”
_______

1 John 5:4
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

________
 
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blue_ladybug said:
In my personal understanding, I think that our names are written in the Book of Life when we believe on Jesus and are saved. I also think that our names are only blotted out if we deny Him, God and the HS..

Of course, I could be wrong.. :)
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Blue, are names are not blotted out ever.

There are different views on this, some very complicated, but for sure once saved, one can never be unsaved by any human act or thought and God does not take away His gift which is irrevocable.
 
OneOfHis said:
I believe all names are in the book of life, and only those who do not believe on Christ will be blotted out, having fallen short.

Whoever believes on Jesus will never be blotted out having been imputed with His righteousness. (clothed in white and seen spotless, as He is)


Exodus 32:33

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.”
______

Revelation 3:5

“He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.”
_______

1 John 5:4
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

________
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That's why you should keep believing.
The promise is for believers. Not never-believers, fake believers, or former believers.
 
OneOfHis said:
I believe all names are in the book of life, and only those who do not believe on Christ will be blotted out, having fallen short.

Whoever believes on Jesus will never be blotted out having been imputed with His righteousness. (clothed in white and seen spotless, as He is)


Exodus 32:33

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.”
______

Revelation 3:5

“He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.”
_______

1 John 5:4
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

________
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Rev 3:5 is employing a figure of speech

A way of making a positive affirmation by negating the opposite. The presence of this figure of speech is often seen by obvious understatement.

Example of a similar idea..

"If you do this, you will not regret it"
 
Judges1318 said:
Depending on your beliefs about the Book of Life, perhaps more names will be blotted out of the Book than retained.
When is a person's name put in the Book of Life?

"9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. " - Romans 7:9

When does a person's name get removed from the Book of Life? When they sin? When they reject Christ (for the last time). Or when they physically die?


That is not happening. The Father does not allow that.
Believers who go back to unbelief and are turned over to that unbelief by God can't come back.
God doesn't allow it for the very reason you cite. It crucifies Christ all over again which subjects Him to open shame.
Click to expand...

Wrong ... contradicting God once again
 
blue_ladybug said:
In my personal understanding, I think that our names are written in the Book of Life when we believe on Jesus and are saved. I also think that our names are only blotted out if we deny Him, God and the HS..

Of course, I could be wrong.. :)
Click to expand...
Maybe everybody starts out in the Book of Life from birth, then when we reject Christ (for the last time allowed) we are removed. :unsure:
 
Judges1318 said:
If I had said I do struggle with unbelief you would have used that against me too.

"18For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon.’ 19The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’ - Matthew 11:18-19


The Galatians did fall from grace. That's much more than just implying the possibility of failure.

"10You are observing special days and months and seasons and years!" - Galatians 4:10
"4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace." - Galatians 5:4
Click to expand...

They did not fall from saving grace which is impossible.
 
Judges1318 said:
I've been talking about the Spirit compelling us to keep believing.
The Bible exhorts us to keep believing and to not give up on the perfect and everlasting ministry of Christ:

"14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, f Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess." - Hebrews 4:14

"23 Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful." - Hebrews 10:23

What exactly is your resistance to these plain passages of scripture?
Click to expand...


A born again sheep can not become a goat.


There is no "keep believing" to anyone who knows their Father in heaven. We can't not hear Him.


For instance.

When I first was convicted of sin and my unbelief, I wanted to reject Christ and would read scriptures and listen to members of His body looking for holes and reasons to discredit the gospel.

Thing is, the more I heard the more I believed it. I could not reject it because I would lie awake at night terrified that I will indeed face a just punishment.

I couldn't unbelieve what rang as true or choose what I believe.


I then wanted to know how to be saved, and fell into a works based false gospel hoping to please my Father whos love I didn't deserve. He then chastened and corrected me and showed me that my assurance needs to come from my savior and not my walk.


I again can't unbelieve Him because I heard Him.

No matter how angry I got or what words I chose to throw around.... I would know Him because He has started in me and will continue to keep me. Chasten me. Correct me. Encourage me.


I do not keep believing by effort or choice but by His works in me.


It really ... truly is not possible for me to reject my Lord as Lord.

Fleeting thoughts or flesh gaining ground can't destroy the foundation He has built.
 
Judges1318 said:
Maybe everybody starts out in the Book of Life from birth, then when we reject Christ (for the last time allowed) we are removed. :unsure:
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As I have said, I believe every name is in the book of life. Every single person who has beem born again will be seen as spotless, covered in white. (Christs righteousness)

Everyone who has not been born again, will be judged and sin will be found in them. Their names will be blotted out, then no longer found written in the book. Then cast into the lake of fire.


Those who have been born of God, have overcome already and are PROMISED by God to NOT be blotted out.



The moment one is born of God, they are under the promise to not be blotted out.
 
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OneOfHis said:
A born again sheep can not become a goat.


There is no "keep believing" to anyone who knows their Father in heaven. We can't not hear Him.


For instance.

When I first was convicted of sin and my unbelief, I wanted to reject Christ and would read scriptures and listen to members of His body looking for holes and reasons to discredit the gospel.

Thing is, the more I heard the more I believed it. I could not reject it because I would lie awake at night terrified that I will indeed face a just punishment.

I couldn't unbelieve what rang as true or choose what I believe.


I then wanted to know how to be saved, and fell into a works based false gospel hoping to please my Father whos love I didn't deserve. He then chastened and corrected me and showed me that my assurance needs to come from my savior and not my walk.


I again can't unbelieve Him because I heard Him.

No matter how angry I got or what words I chose to throw around.... I would know Him because He has started in me and will continue to keep me. Chasten me. Correct me. Encourage me.


I do not keep believing by effort or choice but by His works in me.


It really ... truly is not possible for me to reject my Lord as Lord.

Fleeting thoughts or flesh gaining ground can't destroy the foundation He has built.
Click to expand...
Change all these places where you are talking about 'believing' him to 'trusting' him (which is what believing is referring to).
Then you'll understand what is meant when a person stops 'believing' in Christ for salvation.
They stop trusting in him for salvation.
It is possible for a person to stop trusting in Christ for justification.
The Galatians did that and went back to the law for justification.
 
OneOfHis said:
As I have said, I believe every name is in the book of life. Every single person who has beem born again will be seen as spotless, covered in white. (Christs righteousness)

Everyone who has not been born again, will be judged and sin will be found in them. Their names will be blotted out, then no longer found written in the book. Then cast into the lake of fire.


Those who have been born of God, have overcome already and are PROMISED by God to NOT be blotted out.



The moment one is born of God, they are under the promise to not be blotted out.
Click to expand...
As far as I can see, I agree with all this.
That's why you and I should continue to trust Christ.
The promise is for those who believe, not for those who no longer believe.
Read it for yourself: The promise is for those who are believing.
What is it about that that you disagree with?
 
Judges1318 said:
As far as I can see, I agree with all this.
That's why you and I should continue to trust Christ.
The promise is for those who believe, not for those who no longer believe.
Read it for yourself: The promise is for those who are believing.
What is it about that that you disagree with?
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You disagree with the whole thing if you think those who have been born of God can be blotted out.
 
Judges1318 said:
As far as I can see, I agree with all this.
That's why you and I should continue to trust Christ.
The promise is for those who believe, not for those who no longer believe.
Read it for yourself: The promise is for those who are believing.
What is it about that that you disagree with?
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All your posts have clearly demonstrated you do not agree.

Ongoing belief is not what secures salvation... Jesus gives and secures our salvation.
 
OneOfHis said:
🤦‍♂️


🙅‍♂️
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You're frustrated because you can't grasp that there's another way to see the scriptures that does not make those scriptures untrue.
At some moment the light will go on and you will see that.
I'm not saying the light will go on and you will agree with it. I'm just saying, if you let it, you'll suddenly see that what I'm saying is another way to see the scriptures that you never saw before but which does not make those scriptures untrue. Right now you are convinced there is no other way to understand the scriptures.
 
OneOfHis said:
As I have said, I believe every name is in the book of life. Every single person who has beem born again will be seen as spotless, covered in white. (Christs righteousness)
Click to expand...
I agree with this.

OneOfHis said:
Everyone who has not been born again, will be judged and sin will be found in them. Their names will be blotted out, then no longer found written in the book. Then cast into the lake of fire.
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I'm good with this.
I believe this.

OneOfHis said:
Those who have been born of God, have overcome already and are PROMISED by God to NOT be blotted out.
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I agree!
The promise is only for born again people.
Your not saying anything so far that I don't agree with.

OneOfHis said:
The moment one is born of God, they are under the promise to not be blotted out.
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Yep.
Why do you think I do not agree with this?

I think the problem is you are implying that these passages are saying something that the passages do not actually say. You are adding an interpretation to them that is not stated in those passages. You are adding the osas bias to your reading of them and making them say something they aren't actually saying.
 
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