Not By Works

[EleventhHour]

Say you can't prove it wrong so you start with insults. I understand.

See this the problem right here... when it is proven wrong you deny it.

And you are not forthright ... I think you should answer clearly .....is salvation a reward?

Yes or No?

 

[OneOfHis]

Try a little less condesencion and a little more tolerance, people..

Tolerance for those who hate the true gospel and fight against it for years?


Eh I doubt paul or peter would be mild with one like this.

 

[EleventhHour]

Say you can't prove it wrong so you start with insults. I understand.

And you do not show how it is wrong you just state it is wrong....you need to provide some support to your assertion.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Tolerance for those who hate the true gospel and fight against it for years?


Eh I doubt paul or peter would be mild with one like this.

Maybe I should have said "patience" instead..

Better yet, why not just stop arguing with them and shake off the dust and move on??

 

[EleventhHour]

@lightbearer You are like a parrot that learned from someone with poor english to keep reposting to the garbage.


It has been disproven every time.

Agree

I think if someone has a well thought out position they can offer a rebuttal.. but a parrot only knows to repeat what they have been told and cannot offer a reasoned response.

 

[EleventhHour]

Maybe I should have said "patience" instead..

Better yet, why not just stop arguing with them and shake off the dust and move on??

For the sake of those non members, or weaker believers reading the thread....I think.

 

[OneOfHis]

Maybe I should have said "patience" instead..

Better yet, why not just stop arguing with them and shake off the dust and move on??

Well you are right sis. I see where you're coming from. Thing is... on a public forum we do from time to time need to break down the false teachings. I do think we could be less "sharp" in any words against a person and focus on the errors in the teaching.


I often do just move along, but when I see the false teachers clinging to one thing because everyone keeps knocking the dust off, I like to offer truth so they can look for something else to pervert or finally give in to the truth.

 

[lightbearer]

Already you have proven yourself wrong.

Paul is not saying run to obtain salvation. Salvation is a gift of God and not of ourselves, or do you believe the scriptures contradict themselves?


God back and read before what you posted for extra context.




12 If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.

13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?

14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
______
This is about paul desiring to be blameless BEFORE MAN and doing HIS BEST to not be the cause someone would discredit the gospel because HIS actions.
________

15 But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.

16 For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!

17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.

18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.

19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.

(gain MORE salvation? goodness NO you are so far of lb)

20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

The context starts in respects to Paul being a castaway in verse 23.

CONTEXT AND SENTENCE STRUCTURE dictate this.

GOD THROUGH PAUL STATES HE DOES THE WITNESSING AND THE MANNER HE WITNESSES FOR THE GOSPEL SAKE.
that he might be a partaker thereof (of it) with us.


1Cor 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

Paul is doing something for the Gospel's sake, HE SAYS, "I DO that he MIGHT be a partaker THEREOF, of it with you.

That is what it says. Then he proceeds IN CONTEXT to compare this doing for the Gospel's sake to a race.

He says

1Cor 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

As we can see Paul relates this DOING something for the Gospel SAKE to RUNNING in a race that you might receive The prize. HE IS STILL TALKING ABOUT partaking of the Gospel, obtaining salvation. He then exhorts that they run that they may obtain. THE CONTEXT IS THE GOSPEL, THIS IS THE PRIZE they are running to obtain ACCORDING TO the CONTEXT and sentence structure.

GOD through Paul continues.

1Cor 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

Paul compares running to obtain the prize, TO BEING TEMPERATE IN ALL THINGS. Then DESCRIBES the prize, the GOSPEL AS AN INCORRUPTIBLE CROWN.

He continues, but now speaks relating to himself.

1Cor 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly ( not aimlessly; not as one who has no fixed goal) so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:


Paul says, "I therefore so run". HOW SO? Not as uncertainly ( not aimlessly;not as one who has no fixed goal) so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But as one that is striving for mastery that he obtain the prize, the Gospel, the INCORRUPTIBLE CROWN.

1Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway (REPROBATE, REJECTED).

So now GOD through Paul describes this not running AIMLESSLY BEATING THE AIR, as one who is striving for mastery, being temperate in all thing, keeping his body, and bringing it into subjection. THEN HE STATES WHY he is doing it. He says, "lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway (REPROBATE, REJECTED)."

A castaway, rejected, a reprobate. Not to partake of the Gospel, the PRIZE, THE INCORRUPTIBLE CROWN.

Our Lord and savior does not stop there though HE CONTINUES WITH THE Same CONTEXT IN THE NEXT CHAPTER. He starts the NEXT CHAPTER WITH THE WORD "MOREOVER". SO let's take a look shall we?
.
1Cor 10:5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
1Cor 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
1Cor 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
1Cor 10:8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
1Cor 10:9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
1Cor 10:10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
1Cor 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
1Cor 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

 

[OneOfHis]

1 corinthians an no point is talking about working to maintain salvation


it is about doing our best to not HINDER the gospel that we may be useful

 

[EleventhHour]

1 corinthians an no point is talking about working to maintain salvation


it is about doing our best to not HINDER the gospel that we may be useful

Yes seems clear to me...especially in light of the problems in that group

 

[lightbearer]

And you do not show how it is wrong you just state it is wrong....you need to provide some support to your assertion.

Line upon line eveidence is given

1Cor 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

Paul is doing something for the Gospel's sake, HE SAYS, "I DO that he MIGHT be a partaker THEREOF, of it with you.

That is what it says. Then he proceeds IN CONTEXT to compare this doing for the Gospel's sake to a race.

He says

1Cor 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

As we can see Paul relates this DOING something for the Gospel SAKE to RUNNING in a race that you might receive The prize. HE IS STILL TALKING ABOUT partaking of the Gospel, obtaining salvation. He then exhorts that they run that they may obtain. THE CONTEXT IS THE GOSPEL, THIS IS THE PRIZE they are running to obtain ACCORDING TO the CONTEXT and sentence structure.

GOD through Paul continues.

1Cor 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

Paul compares running to obtain the prize, TO BEING TEMPERATE IN ALL THINGS. Then DESCRIBES the prize, the GOSPEL AS AN INCORRUPTIBLE CROWN.

He continues, but now speaks relating to himself.

1Cor 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly ( not aimlessly; not as one who has no fixed goal) so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:


Paul says, "I therefore so run". HOW SO? Not as uncertainly ( not aimlessly;not as one who has no fixed goal) so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But as one that is striving for mastery that he obtain the prize, the Gospel, the INCORRUPTIBLE CROWN.

1Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway (REPROBATE, REJECTED).

So now GOD through Paul describes this not running AIMLESSLY BEATING THE AIR, as one who is striving for mastery, being temperate in all thing, keeping his body, and bringing it into subjection. THEN HE STATES WHY he is doing it. He says, "lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway (REPROBATE, REJECTED)."

A castaway, rejected, a reprobate. Not to partake of the Gospel, the PRIZE, THE INCORRUPTIBLE CROWN.

Our Lord and savior does not stop there though HE CONTINUES WITH THE Same CONTEXT IN THE NEXT CHAPTER. He starts the NEXT CHAPTER WITH THE WORD "MOREOVER". SO let's take a look shall we?
.
1Cor 10:5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
1Cor 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
1Cor 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
1Cor 10:8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
1Cor 10:9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
1Cor 10:10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
1Cor 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
1Cor 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

 

[EleventhHour]

Line upon line eveidence is given

1Cor 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

Paul is doing something for the Gospel's sake, HE SAYS, "I DO that he MIGHT be a partaker THEREOF, of it with you.

That is what it says. Then he proceeds IN CONTEXT to compare this doing for the Gospel's sake to a race.

He says

1Cor 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

As we can see Paul relates this DOING something for the Gospel SAKE to RUNNING in a race that you might receive The prize. HE IS STILL TALKING ABOUT partaking of the Gospel, obtaining salvation. He then exhorts that they run that they may obtain. THE CONTEXT IS THE GOSPEL, THIS IS THE PRIZE they are running to obtain ACCORDING TO the CONTEXT and sentence structure.

GOD through Paul continues.

1Cor 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

Paul compares running to obtain the prize, TO BEING TEMPERATE IN ALL THINGS. Then DESCRIBES the prize, the GOSPEL AS AN INCORRUPTIBLE CROWN.

He continues, but now speaks relating to himself.

1Cor 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly ( not aimlessly; not as one who has no fixed goal) so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:


Paul says, "I therefore so run". HOW SO? Not as uncertainly ( not aimlessly;not as one who has no fixed goal) so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But as one that is striving for mastery that he obtain the prize, the Gospel, the INCORRUPTIBLE CROWN.

1Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway (REPROBATE, REJECTED).

So now GOD through Paul describes this not running AIMLESSLY BEATING THE AIR, as one who is striving for mastery, being temperate in all thing, keeping his body, and bringing it into subjection. THEN HE STATES WHY he is doing it. He says, "lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway (REPROBATE, REJECTED)."

A castaway, rejected, a reprobate. Not to partake of the Gospel, the PRIZE, THE INCORRUPTIBLE CROWN.

Our Lord and savior does not stop there though HE CONTINUES WITH THE Same CONTEXT IN THE NEXT CHAPTER. He starts the NEXT CHAPTER WITH THE WORD "MOREOVER". SO let's take a look shall we?
.
1Cor 10:5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
1Cor 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
1Cor 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
1Cor 10:8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
1Cor 10:9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
1Cor 10:10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
1Cor 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
1Cor 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

So define Gospel in this context... I can guarantee he is not instructing on HOW to be saved.

 

[mailmandan]

Salvation is a gift.

Do you believe salvation is a prize? Tell me how does one earn this prize from God?

Works-salvationists (including Roman Catholics, Mormons and SDA's) do believe that salvation is a prize and they don't understand the difference between a prize and a free gift. 1 Corinthians 9:24 - Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win. According to their logic, anything short of a gold medal in an Olympic race would mean being disqualified from the Olympics.

Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Ephesians 2:8 (AMPC) - For it is by free grace (God’s unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ’s salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God.

 

[EleventhHour]

they don't understand the difference between a prize and a free gift.

Strange isn't it, most kindergartners knows the difference.

 

[lightbearer]

. 1 Corinthians 9:24 - Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win. According to their logic, anything short of a gold medal in an Olympic race would mean being disqualified from the Olympics.

.

Prove the points of the post wrong point by point with the context of the passage..

1Cor 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

Paul is doing something for the Gospel's sake, HE SAYS, "I DO that he MIGHT be a partaker THEREOF, of it with you.

That is what it says. Then he proceeds IN CONTEXT to compare this doing for the Gospel's sake to a race.

He says

1Cor 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

As we can see Paul relates this DOING something for the Gospel SAKE to RUNNING in a race that you might receive The prize. HE IS STILL TALKING ABOUT partaking of the Gospel, obtaining salvation. He then exhorts that they run that they may obtain. THE CONTEXT IS THE GOSPEL, THIS IS THE PRIZE they are running to obtain ACCORDING TO the CONTEXT and sentence structure.

GOD through Paul continues.

1Cor 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

Paul compares running to obtain the prize, TO BEING TEMPERATE IN ALL THINGS. Then DESCRIBES the prize, the GOSPEL AS AN INCORRUPTIBLE CROWN.

He continues, but now speaks relating to himself.

1Cor 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly ( not aimlessly; not as one who has no fixed goal) so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:


Paul says, "I therefore so run". HOW SO? Not as uncertainly ( not aimlessly;not as one who has no fixed goal) so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But as one that is striving for mastery that he obtain the prize, the Gospel, the INCORRUPTIBLE CROWN.

1Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway (REPROBATE, REJECTED).

So now GOD through Paul describes this not running AIMLESSLY BEATING THE AIR, as one who is striving for mastery, being temperate in all thing, keeping his body, and bringing it into subjection. THEN HE STATES WHY he is doing it. He says, "lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway (REPROBATE, REJECTED)."

A castaway, rejected, a reprobate. Not to partake of the Gospel, the PRIZE, THE INCORRUPTIBLE CROWN.

Our Lord and savior does not stop there though HE CONTINUES WITH THE Same CONTEXT IN THE NEXT CHAPTER. He starts the NEXT CHAPTER WITH THE WORD "MOREOVER". SO let's take a look shall we?
.
1Cor 10:5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
1Cor 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
1Cor 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
1Cor 10:8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
1Cor 10:9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
1Cor 10:10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
1Cor 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
1Cor 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

 

[mailmandan]

Prove the points of the post wrong point by point with the context of the passage..

1Cor 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

Paul is doing something for the Gospel's sake, HE SAYS, "I DO that he MIGHT be a partaker THEREOF, of it with you.

That is what it says. Then he proceeds IN CONTEXT to compare this doing for the Gospel's sake to a race.

He says

1Cor 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

As we can see Paul relates this DOING something for the Gospel SAKE to RUNNING in a race that you might receive The prize. HE IS STILL TALKING ABOUT partaking of the Gospel, obtaining salvation. He then exhorts that they run that they may obtain. THE CONTEXT IS THE GOSPEL, THIS IS THE PRIZE they are running to obtain ACCORDING TO the CONTEXT and sentence structure.

GOD through Paul continues.

1Cor 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

Paul compares running to obtain the prize, TO BEING TEMPERATE IN ALL THINGS. Then DESCRIBES the prize, the GOSPEL AS AN INCORRUPTIBLE CROWN.

He continues, but now speaks relating to himself.

1Cor 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly ( not aimlessly; not as one who has no fixed goal) so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:

Paul says, "I therefore so run". HOW SO? Not as uncertainly ( not aimlessly;not as one who has no fixed goal) so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But as one that is striving for mastery that he obtain the prize, the Gospel, the INCORRUPTIBLE CROWN.

1Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway (REPROBATE, REJECTED).

So now GOD through Paul describes this not running AIMLESSLY BEATING THE AIR, as one who is striving for mastery, being temperate in all thing, keeping his body, and bringing it into subjection. THEN HE STATES WHY he is doing it. He says, "lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway (REPROBATE, REJECTED)."

A castaway, rejected, a reprobate. Not to partake of the Gospel, the PRIZE, THE INCORRUPTIBLE CROWN.

Our Lord and savior does not stop there though HE CONTINUES WITH THE Same CONTEXT IN THE NEXT CHAPTER. He starts the NEXT CHAPTER WITH THE WORD "MOREOVER". SO let's take a look shall we?
.
1Cor 10:5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
1Cor 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
1Cor 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
1Cor 10:8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
1Cor 10:9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
1Cor 10:10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
1Cor 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
1Cor 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Even if I did prove the points of the post wrong point by point with the context of the passage YOU STILL WOULD NOT GET IT and I already proved my points in posts #129,333 and #129,341.

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/not-by-works.146296/page-6467#post-4178838
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/not-by-works.146296/page-6468#post-4178866

 

[OneOfHis]

Even if I did prove the points of the post wrong point by point with the context of the passage YOU STILL WOULD NOT GET IT and I already proved my points in posts #129,333 and #129,341.

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/not-by-works.146296/page-6467#post-4178838
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/not-by-works.146296/page-6468#post-4178866

Spot on. He has been proven wrong and given context. He is unable to respond to those who have shown his error with anything other than a copy and pasted already beaten dead horse...

 

[mailmandan]

Spot on. He has been proven wrong and given context. He is unable to respond to those who have shown his error with anything other than a copy and pasted already beaten dead horse...

Amen! Some people can look up in the sky and see the stars but still not see the light.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Spot on. He has been proven wrong and given context. He is unable to respond to those who have shown his error with anything other than a copy and pasted already beaten dead horse...

 

[EleventhHour]

Tolerance for those who hate the true gospel and fight against it for years?


Eh I doubt paul or peter would be mild with one like this.

You used "eh" and you are not even Canadian eh?