Not By Works
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Amen!Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but... isn't it GOD that keeps us believing, and not ourselves??
Right here....a prime example of butchering the word of God and denying the context of the word disqualified which is NOT SALVATION......wow!
oh... Are you implying malice where irony was being accentuated? I certainly am not trying to hurt feelings. I mean, if it's not obvious to you, it is to me, that everything I say is open and legible....
And open for retort.
Right here....a prime example of butchering the word of God and denying the context of the word disqualified which is SALVATION......wow
Disqualified G96 ἀδόκιμος adokimos (a-d̮o'-kiy-mos) adj.
1. unacceptable, i.e. rejected.
2. (by implication) worthless.
Disqualified= rejected, worthless.
Shall we look at context now?
LET's
1Cor 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
Paul is doing something for the Gospel's sake that he might be a partaker of it.
Shall we continue?
LET's
1Cor 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
Paul says RUN that you might receive The prize, partaking of the Gospel.
Let's keep going shall we....
1Cor 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
Paul says RUN that you MIGHT Receive the PRIZE, Partaking of the GOSPEL, the INCORRUPTIBLE CROWN.
Oh this getting good. Doesn't make sense to stop now let's finish.
1Cor 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly ( not aimlessly;not as one who has no fixed goal) so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
Here is an excerpt from the BDAG for the Greek word for Uncertainly. Bold emphasis is mine
ἀδήλως adv. fr. ἄδηλος (Thu. et al.; Plut.; Aelian, VH 1, 21 p. 10, 4; Philo, Conf. Lingu. 119) uncertainly (Ps.-Phocyl. 25; 117) of a race οὕτως τρέχω ὡς οὐκ ἀδήλως not aimlessly, i.e. not as one who has no fixed goal 1 Cor 9:26 (cp. Ps.-Phocyl. 28 ἄδηλος πλοῦς). PEg2 61 (context fragmentary).
Paul says RUN that you MIGHT Receive the PRIZE, Partaking of the GOSPEL, the INCORRUPTIBLE CROWN. Not aimlessly, i.e. not as one who has no fixed goal. Partaking of the incorruptible crown, partaking of the Gospel..
1Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Paul says not me that he keeps his body into subjection lest by any means he be a Castaway; REJECTED unaccepted in respects to partaking of the Gospel, the prize in receiving the incorruptible crown, life everlasting with the Father and Son for eternity.
Why does Paul want fake believers to continue in a kindness they do not participate in (thus the reason they are cut off)?
22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. - Romans 11:22
Your interpretation is saying the fake believer will not be cut off as long as he continues his charade as a believer who gets to participate in the kindness of God by association with believers.
Forced interpretations are not plain language.
I suggest we just go with what the passage plainly says and not read it with osas bias:
"20 they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off." - Romans 11:20-22
The person who stands by faith should not be arrogant but rather fear that if he does not continue in God's kindness, but instead in unbelief, he also will be cut off.
What problem do you have with that plain read except that it does not agree with a osas doctrinal presupposition? It has to be made to not mean what it plainly says in order for it to conform to a osas presupposition.
...until it got to the part about being cut off. Then it was addressing the Judas's among us. It had to be, because saved people can't ever be cut off.
That's called reading a passage with bias.
I dunno about everyone else, but I can not fathom not believing.
How can people who deny the saving power of God through Jesus Christ have the Spirit of Truth?
I don't want a God that puts my eternal destiny in my filthy, sin filled hands.
How can people who deny the saving power of God through Jesus Christ have the Spirit of Truth?
I don't want a God that puts my eternal destiny in my filthy, sin filled hands.
I wouldn't keep publicly advertising that fact, seeing how you were formerly banned under that nick, and if a mod sees you admit that, you'll get hit with the ban hammer again..
Show me the specific words, "lose your salvation" in the Bible. ALL works-salvationists unanimously believe that a Christian can lose their salvation. In 1 Corinthians 9:27, the NIV reads - ..disqualified for the prize. What is the prize before Paul? Is it in regards to the reward which he spoke about in verse 1 Corinthians 9:18? Salvation is a gift and not a prize. Prize (brabeion) - the prize awarded to a victor, the reward (recognition) that follows triumph. That doesn't sound like a free gift (Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8). 1 Corinthians 3:14-15 mentions - If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, (of reward) though he himself will be saved.
Notice that verse 24 says, "Do you not know that those who run in a race ALL run, but ONLY ONE receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it." In an Olympic race, all runners run but only one receives the gold medal. So what happens to the runners that receive the silver medal or bronze medal or no medal? Are they disqualified from the Olympics or from the prize? In this case would be the gold medal.
Paul does not seem to indicate any insecurity about his position - "Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day--and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing" (2 Timothy 4:8).
We've been over this numerous times. We don't find the words "lose your salvation" in Hebrews 3:12-13. What we do find: Hebrews 3:8 - Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, in the day of trial in the wilderness, 9 Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me, And saw My works forty years. 10 Therefore I was angry with that generation, And said, 'They always go astray in their heart, And they have not known My ways.' Not descriptive of genuine believers. There is no loss of salvation here. Only a failure to receive it. Verses 18-19 - And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. That explains the hardened heart. It took them in the opposite direction of God. Heard the truth for a time, but then hardened heart and departing from God became their final answer.
*Jude 1:5 - The Lord delivered His people (the Israelites) out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.
Hebrews 3:14 - For we have become [past tense Gk. verb, gegonamen, meaning we have become already] partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end. Notice that this is essentially a repeat of verse 6, where we read: but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house - whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end. The wording is not - "and you will become (future indicative) partakers of Christ if you (future indicative) hold fast." It is rather - "you have been, and now are, partakers of Christ (demonstrative evidence) if in the future you hold fast."
The point is that not all of these Hebrews have become partakers of Christ and of course, the only ones in the end who will be identified as genuine believers/partakers of Christ will have been those who held fast the beginning of their confidence steadfast to the end. Those faltering Hebrews who depart from God may begin with loud confidence and profession of loyalty. But then later? Future perseverance is proof of genuine conversion.
You just cannot seem to grasp that deceived make believers are mixed in with genuine believers. Hebrews 4:1 - Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed the gospel was preached to US as well as to THEM; but the word which THEY heard did not profit THEM, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3 For WE who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest," although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Obviously, not all of these Hebrews were genuine believers. Notice that verses 2-3 makes a distinction between US who have BELIEVED and do enter that rest and THEM who heard the word but did not mix faith with what they heard and will not enter that rest because of UNBELIEF.
Did you read the verses posted? What you said is completely the opposite of what the verses said.
Paul is addressing groups of people who profess to be Christians without being able to infallibly know the actual state of every person's heart and Paul knows that faith which is firmly grounded and established from the start will continue. Those who continue in the faith/stand by faith demonstrate thereby that they are genuine believers. Those who are cut off demonstrate otherwise. You remain naive to the fact that there are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians mixed in with the group all throughout scripture. Why do you think the Bible talks about false teachers, false prophets, false brethren, false disciples, wolves in sheep's clothing, wheat and tares etc...
If Romans 11 is all about losing salvation, then why does Paul start out saying, "has God cast away His people? Certainly not! God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew...Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace."
Then finishes up with, "For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved.."
All you focus on is continue, cut off without considering the context, then jump to your biased conclusions.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
I said what the Bible says over and over, the Bible does not contradict itself
you gave descriptive verses, not prescriptive verses,
it describes what Gods children do, not what they have to do to remain Gods children.
The Gospel; salvation.
Here look, please take your time prayerfully.
1Cor 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
Paul is doing something for the Gospel's sake that he might be a partaker of it, the Gospel with the people he is speaking to.
Then he says
1Cor 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
As we can see Paul relates this doing something for the Gospel to RUNNING in a race that you might receive The prize, partaking of the Gospel, obtaining salvation.
1Cor 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
Paul states RUN WE MIGHT Receive, obtain the PRIZE, Partaking of the GOSPEL, the INCORRUPTIBLE CROWN.
He continues
1Cor 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly ( not aimlessly;not as one who has no fixed goal) so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
Paul says he RUNS that he MIGHT Receive the PRIZE, obtaining the GOSPEL, the INCORRUPTIBLE CROWN. Not aimlessly is he running, i.e. not as one who has no fixed goal. But as one that may obtain the prize, the incorruptible crown, partaking of the Gospel, Salvation.
Then before going into examples in chapter 11 of what happens to those who do not run that they MIGHT Receive the PRIZE, obtain the GOSPEL, the INCORRUPTIBLE CROWN. Not aimlessly running, i.e. not as one who has no fixed goal. But as one that may obtain the prize, the incorruptible crown, partaking of the Gospel, Salvation.
He defines this running he is doing for the Gospel, this discipline that they MIGHT Receive the PRIZE, obtain the GOSPEL, the INCORRUPTIBLE CROWN.
1Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway (REPROBATE, REJECTED).
Paul says he runs, in that he keeps his body into subjection lest by any means he be a Castaway; A REPROBATE, REJECTED and unaccepted in respects to obtaining the prize of the Gospel, the incorruptible crown, life everlasting with the Father and Son for eternity.
Then he continues in chapter 11 and gives examples of what happens to those who do not run that they MIGHT Receive the PRIZE, obtain the GOSPEL, the INCORRUPTIBLE CROWN. life everlasting with the Father and Son for eternity.
In closing in respect to this topic he says.
Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
1Cor 10:11,12
I would be amiss if I failed to mention the Greek word for Castaway in verse 9:27 is a real interesting word. It is also translated REPROBATE and REJECTED in the KJV of the New Testament.
Doesnt work, sorry. You cant say its descriptive because you cant break a covenant you were never in, you cant depart something you were not in.
But this is where we are at, I see it. Carry on guys.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
It does work
sorry you can try to take your works to God, he will simply tell you to,depart, he never knew you
i will pray for you