Not By Works

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Judges1318

Banned
#129,261
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
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#129,261
OneOfHis said:
These verses you post in no way suggest one who is saved already, can ever be unsaved. It is about people who heard the truth within the church and set it aside to go back to the law for justification, it is also about encouragement and great information, a massive difference in belief between those under grace and those who have heard of grace but made it of no effect by adding leaven and ruining the whole gospel.
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No, Paul is talking about people in the church at Galatia who God knows (saved people) who have gone back to the law for justification:

" 9and now, having known God — and rather being known by God — how turn ye again unto the weak and poor elements to which anew ye desire to be in servitude? 10days ye observe, and months, and times, and years! " - Galatians 4:9-10 YLT

He told these saved people that they make Christ of no value to them in justification by doing that.
 
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Judges1318

Banned
#129,264
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
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#129,264
blue_ladybug said:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but... isn't it GOD that keeps us believing, and not ourselves?? :unsure:
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He enables you to place your trust in God.
Nobody can trust God out of their own resources.
You are free to reject that enabling and go back to unbelief.
And you are free to retain that enabling and continue in your believing.
 
Tellion

Tellion

Junior Member
#129,265
Jan 8, 2003
279
354
63
#129,265
Judges1318 said:
You're telling me it's arrogant and boastful to say, 'oh, look at me, I keep believing' (even though the Bible plainly exhorts us to keep believing, and says 'believing' is not self righteous), and I'm told it's wrong to incite unfounded fear in believers about losing salvation, but the Bible warns the believer who does not fear unbelief to not be arrogant, not me who warns against unbelief:

"they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either." - Romans 11:20-21

The warning to not be arrogant is to YOU, not me. I'm the one exhorting believers to continue to trust God in holy fear so they won't be cut out of the vine.

And for those of you who think this warning is for fake believers note the 'you stand by faith' in verse 20. He's talking to believers.
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Being wary of sin is not a separate thing from being confident in salvation. "Not a hair shall fall from your head" isn't said so we have to think "oh I could lose my salvation at any time." The exhortation will still exist even after purification, whereby which it will then be impossible to sin.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#129,266
#129,266
blue_ladybug said:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but... isn't it GOD that keeps us believing, and not ourselves?? :unsure:
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Amen

he who began a good work in you WILL COMPLETE it,

he HAS PERFECTED FOREVER those he is in the process of sanctifying

people like judges claim the trust God, but the fact they deny these passages WILL not might, be fulfilled showed otherwise
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#129,269
#129,269
Judges1318 said:
He enables you to place your trust in God.
Nobody can trust God out of their own resources.
You are free to reject that enabling and go back to unbelief.
And you are free to retain that enabling and continue in your believing.
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Wrong again

For one belief is not volitional.

Secondly ...belief is a stative verb ....meaning a state of being

And scripture makes very cleae in John 3:16 that clearly states according to correct understanding if the stative verb "believe: that those who are in a state of believing have entered into eternal life.

So stop trying to switch the argument to "believe" and please explain to all of us how eternal life does not mean "eternal."

Eternal life is a present posession upon belief.
End of story....your whole argument is a false side show.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#129,270
#129,270
Judges1318 said:
He enables you to place your trust in God.
Nobody can trust God out of their own resources.
You are free to reject that enabling and go back to unbelief.
And you are free to retain that enabling and continue in your believing.
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It is not complicated.

God puts His truth on the floor for "babies" to grasp and for the poor to take (Matthew 11:25-30)

The Lord said "if [we] confess with our mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in [our] heart that God has raised Him from the dead, [we] shall be saved."

(Romans 10:9) And then He promises His people (those who are literally and completely His forever in Hebrews 13:5, "for He Himself has said, I will never leave you nor forsake you." The end!
🙂🙏
 
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Judges1318

Banned
#129,271
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
#129,271
Tellion said:
Being wary of sin is not a separate thing from being confident in salvation. "Not a hair shall fall from your head" isn't said so we have to think "oh I could lose my salvation at any time." The exhortation will still exist even after purification, whereby which it will then be impossible to sin.
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The passage is talking about being cut off because of UNBELIEF, not because of sinning:

"20 they were broken off because of unbelief
22 kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off." - Romans 11:20,22
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#129,272
#129,272
Judges1318 said:
No, Paul is talking about people in the church at Galatia who God knows (saved people) who have gone back to the law for justification:

" 9and now, having known God — and rather being known by God — how turn ye again unto the weak and poor elements to which anew ye desire to be in servitude? 10days ye observe, and months, and times, and years! " - Galatians 4:9-10 YLT

He told these saved people that they make Christ of no value to them in justification by doing that.
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Eternal life is eternal.
Possessed at the moment of belief.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#129,273
#129,273
Judges1318 said:
The passage is talking about being cut off because of UNBELIEF, not because of sinning:

"20 they were broken off because of unbelief
22 kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off." - Romans 11:20,22
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This is out of context

If one could be cut from eternal life then it was not eternal.
Scripture is clear the gift is eternal life.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#129,274
#129,274
Judges1318 said:
He enables you to place your trust in God.
Nobody can trust God out of their own resources.
You are free to reject that enabling and go back to unbelief.
And you are free to retain that enabling and continue in your believing.
Click to expand...
Impossible to reject the gift of eternal life once it had been given.
 
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Judges1318

Banned
#129,276
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
#129,276
eternally-gratefull said:
he HAS PERFECTED FOREVER those he is in the process of sanctifying

people like judges claim the trust God, but the fact they deny these passages WILL not might, be fulfilled showed otherwise
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I'm not denying any passages. I'm just going by what it actually says.

In context we see, being perfected forever does not mean you possess that sacrifice forever and can not lose it. It means Christ does not have to be sacrificed over and over again, like the OT sacrifices had to be. He got the job done in one sacrifice. And because that's true you should hold onto it:

Hebrews 10:

1 The law...can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2 Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered?
10 we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God,
14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
18 And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.

And because this is true, we are exhorted to hold to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful:

23 Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful.

So you can see it has nothing to do with you not being able to lose the sacrifice of Jesus, but rather that the one sacrifice is sufficient to cover you forever without it having to be repeated, unlike the OT sacrifices. And that's why we should hold fast in faith to such a great sacrifice. Nothing there about not being able to lose it.
 
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Judges1318

Banned
#129,277
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
#129,277
eternally-gratefull said:
he who began a good work in you WILL COMPLETE it,
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Yep.
That's why we should keep believing and not throw away such a great hope:

"Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful." - Hebrews 10:23

"since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess." - Hebrews 4:24
 
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Judges1318

Banned
#129,279
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
#129,279
mailmandan said:
He won't be happy until he drags everyone onto his emotional ride of fear and bondage to IN-security. Misery loves company. :rolleyes:

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No, Me and Paul:

20 they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble.
21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. - Romans 11:20-22

Continue in his kindness and you have nothing to fear. You will be in the safest place that exists.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#129,280
#129,280
mailmandan said:
He won't be happy until he drags everyone onto his emotional ride of fear and bondage to IN-security. Misery loves company. :rolleyes:

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Yes it would seem so... there is absolutely no scriptural, logical reason that makes salvation tenuous.

The believer has one thing in life that is sure based upon the completed sacrificial work of a loving Saviour.....eternal life.

In my book and this may sound harsh but anyone who believes Jesus is not able to impart eternal life is
an enemy of the Gospel .....clear as day!
 
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