Why do "bible believing" Christian use "reality" to justify what they believe?

[know1]

It use to be, years ago, most would use scripture as their authority, to argue their point.
Now, most use the real world as their authority and to trump the truths of the bible.
I hear many say they believe the bible as the truth and even that it is the inerrant word of God, written through holy men of old who were moved by the Holy Ghost, only for them to completely ignore what is written and state what others are doing or what happened to others or themselves, as though, by stating such, proves said statement is the evidence of what is the real truth and true authority to follow.
The bible seems to have become irrelevant in today's church and to so-called believers.
I ask many, "what is written?", only for it to go ignored or for them to tell me what happened to someone or what so and so did, or what is happening in the "real world".
What in God's green earth, does that have to do with what truth is?
They don't live in a pipe dream world..., no..., reality dictates what is fact, (considered by them to be truth,) and what is fiction.
If the interpretation doesn't line up with "reality", then it's fiction, and therefore we need to change said interpretation to line up with our FAILED experiences.
Reality therefore, dictates what they should believe and not believe, or what doctrines to believe and which ones to call "doctrines of the devil".
And now, even doctrines used by those who produce, so-called, "bad fruit", are considered bad or evil doctrines, and lies of the devil, while that which truly is bad and evil, such as sickness and poverty, are considered blessings of and from God.
What happened to scripture being the foundation of doctrines?
Words of faith, is a doctrine straight out of the scriptures, yet it is called a lie of the devil, and those whose teach such, such as yours truly, are called heretics, cultist, liars, evil, and corrupt teacher of doctrines of devils, and the like.
So what is your doctrinal authority in and how do you justify it, if it is not in the word of God?
And how can we tell which interpretations are of the truth, both of and from God, and which ones are not, when reality, or the real world, is involved?

 

[oksana123]

I hear what your saying. I noticed this as well. I find that a lot of times when people get discouraged they may feel like Following the Bible word for word has let them down in some way and try to find excuses to use the real world to argue their point of why they are disobeying Gods word. I have an example from my life. There was a time that I was treated very bad by someone who was close to me. I would always treat them nicely to try to overcome their evil remembering the verse "Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." Romans 12:21. When they would cheat me, call me names, talk bad about me I would forgive them instantly, take care of them, do favors for them. This resulted in the person taking more advantage of me. I felt like In reality I was enabling them to continue mistreating them by trying to overcome evil with good. Eventually I realized that there are boundaries and consequences that people must have. I've realized that it takes time to see fruit and if you are faithful to God and listen to his word you will eventually reap good fruit. But when a person gets discouraged it's a dangerous place because satin starts to tempt you and you start doubting the authority of the word.

 

[JaumeJ]

Footnote; Parables are examples of the world, this age that is. Our Savior used them to explain at our level many important teachings.

 

[know1]

Footnote; Parables are examples of the world, this age that is. Our Savior used them to explain at our level many important teachings.

Agreed, but should we use our experiences as truths from the bible and teach such, even when the bible plainly teaches contrary to the facts?
For example, many teach against WOF, in part, because of how it has been used, and yet, it is one of the very things Paul taught, even explaining how it works in scripture.
Many here on CC have condemned the doctrine while pointing out that many who believe in the doctrine of WOF have used it to obtain wealth, health, and material things.
Regardless of how it has been used, should we demonize a truth, so clearly taught by Paul?
Or should we teach, sickness is of and a blessing from God, simply because we didn't get what we asked for when we prayed for our healing? The very thing Jesus took and bore in His own body, so we wouldn't have to?
Again, teaching others their experiences as though it is truth or trumps the truths written.
These are clear perversions of scripture.

 

[JaumeJ]

When a miracle is worked through any one of us by the Father, or the ift of knowledge is given, and of course a healing, this is also from the Word but a direct intervention of God using a willing servant as Hisw worker. It has occurred with me and with many others along my Way given me, so in these instances yes, and most likely experiences are just as valid when given by our F
ather to willing srvants for His glorification. He is so wonderful, just wonderful.

 

[Godsgirl83]

sorry, this might be somewhat off topic here, just been on my mind and seems like a good spot to throw it out there at.

when it comes to words of faith, one thing many people often forget (and often do not teach about) is a certain little word called "TIME".....
there are 3 parts:

SEED
TIME
HARVEST

many people seem to want to make it only 2 parts
SEEDTIME (as in the time you are planting the seed)
HARVEST

I have often heard it referred to more like this:

SEED
TIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIME
HARVEST

you see, when a farmer plants his seed, the harvest isn't instantaneous. It takes TIME for it to take root and sprout before growing into a full blown harvest.

 

[p_rehbein]

WOF?

When did whatever that is become a Doctrine?

 

[John146]

It use to be, years ago, most would use scripture as their authority, to argue their point.
Now, most use the real world as their authority and to trump the truths of the bible.
I hear many say they believe the bible as the truth and even that it is the inerrant word of God, written through holy men of old who were moved by the Holy Ghost, only for them to completely ignore what is written and state what others are doing or what happened to others or themselves, as though, by stating such, proves said statement is the evidence of what is the real truth and true authority to follow.
The bible seems to have become irrelevant in today's church and to so-called believers.
I ask many, "what is written?", only for it to go ignored or for them to tell me what happened to someone or what so and so did, or what is happening in the "real world".
What in God's green earth, does that have to do with what truth is?
They don't live in a pipe dream world..., no..., reality dictates what is fact, (considered by them to be truth,) and what is fiction.
If the interpretation doesn't line up with "reality", then it's fiction, and therefore we need to change said interpretation to line up with our FAILED experiences.
Reality therefore, dictates what they should believe and not believe, or what doctrines to believe and which ones to call "doctrines of the devil".
And now, even doctrines used by those who produce, so-called, "bad fruit", are considered bad or evil doctrines, and lies of the devil, while that which truly is bad and evil, such as sickness and poverty, are considered blessings of and from God.
What happened to scripture being the foundation of doctrines?
Words of faith, is a doctrine straight out of the scriptures, yet it is called a lie of the devil, and those whose teach such, such as yours truly, are called heretics, cultist, liars, evil, and corrupt teacher of doctrines of devils, and the like.
So what is your doctrinal authority in and how do you justify it, if it is not in the word of God?
And how can we tell which interpretations are of the truth, both of and from God, and which ones are not, when reality, or the real world, is involved?

Peter say the transfigured Jesus in all His glory. Peter heard the Father speak to His Son. And yet, Peter says that we have something more sure than his own experiences. The word of God always trumps our experiences. If our experiences do not line up with the word of God, the experience cannot be trusted as coming from the Lord.

16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

 

[know1]

When a miracle is worked through any one of us by the Father, or the ift of knowledge is given, and of course a healing, this is also from the Word but a direct intervention of God using a willing servant as Hisw worker. It has occurred with me and with many others along my Way given me, so in these instances yes, and most likely experiences are just as valid when given by our F
ather to willing srvants for His glorification. He is so wonderful, just wonderful.

I have had the same happen to me as well, but what happens when your experiences disagree with what is written?
For example, there have been times when I prayed for my deliverance and healing from a cold, and nothing happened.
Should I then tell others, "God doesn't want me to get well", or "maybe He's trying to teach me something, like how to be humble", or something like that, based upon my experiences, even though it contradicts scripture?

 

[know1]

WOF?

When did whatever that is become a Doctrine?

Word of faith, WOF, name it claim it, blab it grab it.
That doctrine.

 

[p_rehbein]

Ok, thanks. I am completely against that, so I guess that makes me a bad guy or something. Those folks today who teach this are only trying to justify their search for PERSONAL wealth, and it has nothing to do with glorifying God IMO.

anyway, thanks

 

[p_rehbein]

Here is some reading to consider:

Is the ‘Name It Claim It’ Teaching Biblical? | Truth in Reality

(excerpt)

Another problem with the name it and claim it teaching is that if fails to recognize that Jesus Himself is the ultimate treasure worth sacrificing everything for (Matthew 13:44) and instead sees Jesus as little more than a way of getting what we want right now. Jesus’ message is that a Christian is called to “…deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul” (Matthew 16:24-24). Contrast that to the message of the prosperity gospel. Rather than being a message of self-denial, the prosperity gospel is one of self-satisfaction. Its goal is not becoming more Christ-like through sacrifice but having what we want here and now, clearly contradicting the words of our Savior.

 

[kaylagrl]

WOF?

When did whatever that is become a Doctrine?

Word of Faith, otherwise known as "name it and claim it"

 

[JaumeJ]

I have had the same happen to me as well, but what happens when your experiences disagree with what is written?
For example, there have been times when I prayed for my deliverance and healing from a cold, and nothing happened.
Should I then tell others, "God doesn't want me to get well", or "maybe He's trying to teach me something, like how to be humble", or something like that, based upon my experiences, even though it contradicts scripture?

It is quite probable He is showing you that although He uses you and others, you too are but flesh, and you also may return to the dust one day.

I know when i WAS IN THE MOUNTAINS CAMPING AND REDING THE wORD AND SHARING WITH ANY WHO WOULD HEAR I would sometimes burn my hands or the like. I found myself saying, 2Thank you, Jesus," and it was healed. Even of late I have burned myself and done the same with the same results.

Now having confessed this, when I began losing mysight over 30 years ago, I immediately thanked our Father and a few miracles did occur, however I still lost the vision in one ey, and gradually over the years am losign the other. I thank God for this always, and have no desire for a return of my sight unless He wants it. A
ctuallY iFIND i FELL i SEE MORE WITHOUT VISION THAN i DID WITH IT.

I am now 75, and recently certain symptoms have been diagnosed as first, cervical artrosis, a deterioration of the cervicals, and also followed by osteoarthritis, a deteroration of the bones..........beginning with shoulders for now and some in one hip.
I thank god for these reminders and stepping stones toward Him because it is a demonstration of just how mortal we are without being with Him yet. Prais Yah, God, amem.

 

[know1]

I hear what your saying. I noticed this as well. I find that a lot of times when people get discouraged they may feel like Following the Bible word for word has let them down in some way and try to find excuses to use the real world to argue their point of why they are disobeying Gods word. I have an example from my life. There was a time that I was treated very bad by someone who was close to me. I would always treat them nicely to try to overcome their evil remembering the verse "Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." Romans 12:21. When they would cheat me, call me names, talk bad about me I would forgive them instantly, take care of them, do favors for them. This resulted in the person taking more advantage of me. I felt like In reality I was enabling them to continue mistreating them by trying to overcome evil with good. Eventually I realized that there are boundaries and consequences that people must have. I've realized that it takes time to see fruit and if you are faithful to God and listen to his word you will eventually reap good fruit. But when a person gets discouraged it's a dangerous place because satin starts to tempt you and you start doubting the authority of the word.

I think that is exactly what happens most of the time.
I mean, you're left there scratching your head wondering, 'what went wrong?', when nothing happens or the situation gets worse.
And at that moment, a whole slew of thoughts come at you, along with the pastor and other church goers telling you it wasn't God's will for you, and sometimes God say, 'no', don't ya know.
Then you are lead to think "that faith stuff don't work", followed by, "them word of faith preachers are liars and cult leaders."
I think people come up with these excuses to succor their hurt feelings, kind of like a binky or pacifier, not understanding why.
I don't know why exactly people do that, but I concur with you.
But does that make them right and their experience the truth, while making the word out to be wrong or a lie?
I think, NOT.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Looks like you are not too happy with the revivalist movement and the fruit there of.

 

[know1]

sorry, this might be somewhat off topic here, just been on my mind and seems like a good spot to throw it out there at.

when it comes to words of faith, one thing many people often forget (and often do not teach about) is a certain little word called "TIME".....
there are 3 parts:

SEED
TIME
HARVEST

many people seem to want to make it only 2 parts
SEEDTIME (as in the time you are planting the seed)
HARVEST

I have often heard it referred to more like this:

SEED
TIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIME
HARVEST

you see, when a farmer plants his seed, the harvest isn't instantaneous. It takes TIME for it to take root and sprout before growing into a full blown harvest.

No, I think what you brought up is, right on target.
Aside from many believers saying their hoping, wishing, and wondering, was faith or that they were really believing, most just QUIT expecting, shortly after they praying.
Also, most don't know what faith is or how it works.
They don't know, if you don't already have it, then you won't get it, or if it isn't already done, then it won't get done.
Most are no only ignorant of the truth, but willfully ignorant.
Most of the time, it takes time for God to manifest our prayers, but, as you pointed out, we need to give it tiiiiiiiime.
Heb 6:12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

 

[oksana123]

I think that is exactly what happens most of the time.
I mean, you're left there scratching your head wondering, 'what went wrong?', when nothing happens or the situation gets worse.
And at that moment, a whole slew of thoughts come at you, along with the pastor and other church goers telling you it wasn't God's will for you, and sometimes God say, 'no', don't ya know.
Then you are lead to think "that faith stuff don't work", followed by, "them word of faith preachers are liars and cult leaders."
I think people come up with these excuses to succor their hurt feelings, kind of like a binky or pacifier, not understanding why.
I don't know why exactly people do that, but I concur with you.
But does that make them right and their experience the truth, while making the word out to be wrong or a lie?
I think, NOT.

In my Personal experience I realized that this verse Romans 8:28 is true "And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose." I realized that it takes time for us to see the fruit that comes from us obeying the Lord even in the most difficult situation. When you are in the trial going through a hard time it's difficult to believe that things will get better all you can see is whats in front of you. After time passes and you look back you can see how much stronger you are and how much better off you are when God leads you through something.

 

[know1]

Ok, thanks. I am completely against that, so I guess that makes me a bad guy or something. Those folks today who teach this are only trying to justify their search for PERSONAL wealth, and it has nothing to do with glorifying God IMO.

anyway, thanks

You are a perfect example of an ignoramus, arguing about a subject you know little to nothing about.
Would you care to enlighten us, concerning, let's say Romans 10:8-10, that we may bask in your wealth of superior knowledge?
You are the bad guy, and you're welcome.
Well, don't take my word for it, the word of God says you have an evil heart of unbelief.

Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

Again, a clear example of someone who refuses to look at scripture, while drawing everyone's attention to the so-called, "realities of life", as though that is the real authority to follow, and what is written is a lie.
I say again, what does that have to do with what is written, and how does your example justify rejecting the same?

 

[know1]

In my Personal experience I realized that this verse Romans 8:28 is true "And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose." I realized that it takes time for us to see the fruit that comes from us obeying the Lord even in the most difficult situation. When you are in the trial going through a hard time it's difficult to believe that things will get better all you can see is whats in front of you. After time passes and you look back you can see how much stronger you are and how much better off you are when God leads you through something.

That is, IF one does not quit.
To them who do quit, the situation will most likely remains the same or it might get worse.
But to them who hold fast till they have done the will of God, they are the ones who will see how God made them stronger and wiser, and will have something to rejoice over and give God glory.

Heb 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Heb 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.