Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Will you be genuine or post jump and ramble?
I would rather be genuine but you would need to keep silly phrases like "try to focus" or "if you study like I have" away from me, or sources outside scripture as our source for truth.
I have read the scriptures and will continue to always. I am a born again son of God. If you disagree that's fine but you would need to keep silly "you would need the Holy spirit to see as i do" out of it.
I am so tired of strawmen and silly rabbit holes, I really am sorry for being dismissive but I have danced this dance so many times my feet hurt from horrible partners.
4100. pisteuó ►
Strong's Concordance
pisteuó: to believe, entrust
Original Word: πιστεύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: pisteuó
Phonetic Spelling: (pist-yoo'-o)
Definition: to believe, entrust
Usage: I believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: I am entrusted with.
4100 pisteúō (from 4102 /pístis, "faith," derived from 3982 /peíthō, "persuade, be persuaded") – believe (affirm, have confidence); used of persuading oneself (= human believing) and with the sacred significance of being persuaded by the Lord (= faith-believing). Only the context indicates whether 4100 /pisteúō ("believe") is self-serving (without sacred meaning), or the believing that leads to/proceeds from God's inbirthing of faith.
4102. pistis ►
Strong's Concordance
pistis: faith, faithfulness
Original Word: πίστις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)
Definition: faith, faithfulness
Usage: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.
4102 pístis (from 3982/peithô, "persuade, be persuaded") – properly, persuasion (be persuaded, come to trust); faith.
Faith (4102/pistis) is always a gift from God, and never something that can be produced by people. In short, 4102/pistis ("faith") for the believer is "God's divine persuasion" – and therefore distinct from human belief (confidence), yet involving it. The Lord continuously births faith in the yielded believer so they can know what He prefers, i.e. the persuasion of His will (1 Jn 5:4).
______
Yes I agree with these.
Lets back up further,
how would YOU in YOUR words describe the saving gospel in short and precise way.
(i will then reply with mine and we can then use verses to justify our understandings, then one at a time we can state why we disagree or see the verses as different messages)
I would rather be genuine but you would need to keep silly phrases like "try to focus" or "if you study like I have" away from me, or sources outside scripture as our source for truth.
I have read the scriptures and will continue to always. I am a born again son of God. If you disagree that's fine but you would need to keep silly "you would need the Holy spirit to see as i do" out of it.
I am so tired of strawmen and silly rabbit holes, I really am sorry for being dismissive but I have danced this dance so many times my feet hurt from horrible partners.
4100. pisteuó ►
Strong's Concordance
pisteuó: to believe, entrust
Original Word: πιστεύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: pisteuó
Phonetic Spelling: (pist-yoo'-o)
Definition: to believe, entrust
Usage: I believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: I am entrusted with.
4100 pisteúō (from 4102 /pístis, "faith," derived from 3982 /peíthō, "persuade, be persuaded") – believe (affirm, have confidence); used of persuading oneself (= human believing) and with the sacred significance of being persuaded by the Lord (= faith-believing). Only the context indicates whether 4100 /pisteúō ("believe") is self-serving (without sacred meaning), or the believing that leads to/proceeds from God's inbirthing of faith.
4102. pistis ►
Strong's Concordance
pistis: faith, faithfulness
Original Word: πίστις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)
Definition: faith, faithfulness
Usage: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.
4102 pístis (from 3982/peithô, "persuade, be persuaded") – properly, persuasion (be persuaded, come to trust); faith.
Faith (4102/pistis) is always a gift from God, and never something that can be produced by people. In short, 4102/pistis ("faith") for the believer is "God's divine persuasion" – and therefore distinct from human belief (confidence), yet involving it. The Lord continuously births faith in the yielded believer so they can know what He prefers, i.e. the persuasion of His will (1 Jn 5:4).
______
Yes I agree with these.
Lets back up further,
how would YOU in YOUR words describe the saving gospel in short and precise way.
(i will then reply with mine and we can then use verses to justify our understandings, then one at a time we can state why we disagree or see the verses as different messages)
-
3
-
2
- Show all
P
I just don't take most of you serious. It's your hatred that fooled me.
We're not at any point to look at scripture. We're still trying to agree on the correct terminology. You keep doubling, tripling down into Oblivion on the mistranslated words believe, believer, and believing!
I realize your entire understanding is resting on those mistranslations, what are you going to do about it? Call me names, misrepresent! Deal with it! Don't you want to know Him better, or correctly?
We're not at any point to look at scripture. We're still trying to agree on the correct terminology. You keep doubling, tripling down into Oblivion on the mistranslated words believe, believer, and believing!
I realize your entire understanding is resting on those mistranslations, what are you going to do about it? Call me names, misrepresent! Deal with it! Don't you want to know Him better, or correctly?
P
Okay , I'll start over and from the beginning. But now or even tonight won't work. I'm not blowing you off, my wife was diagnosed with cancer last week. She went in this morning to have the stress test to get approved for surgery and she only got halfway through the test before they sent us to the ER. Heart rate and BP are out of control. I'm disabled so it's hard for me to be at her bedside . I'll post as I can, will this work for you?
-
4
- Show all
You don't know what you are talking about. If you did you wouldn't be saying what you are saying. Which is nothing but more backbiting inciting nonsense.
Once again an excerpt from the BDAG on the Greek word for believe.
1 to consider someth. to be true and therefore worthy of one’s trust, believe
2 to entrust oneself to an entity in complete confidence, believe (in), trust, w. implication of total commitment to the one who is trusted. In our lit. God and Christ are objects of this type of faith that relies on their power and nearness to help, in addition to being convinced that their revelations or disclosures are true. The obj. is
3 entrust
Once again an excerpt from the BDAG on the Greek word for believe.
1 to consider someth. to be true and therefore worthy of one’s trust, believe
2 to entrust oneself to an entity in complete confidence, believe (in), trust, w. implication of total commitment to the one who is trusted. In our lit. God and Christ are objects of this type of faith that relies on their power and nearness to help, in addition to being convinced that their revelations or disclosures are true. The obj. is
3 entrust
You started right away with the attack of our understanding, or our ability to understand, I will try to be more gracious towards you, but understand it becomes difficult when you dismiss arguments, not with reason, but with the difficulty of divulging that reasoning. ("It would take too much time to explain it to you" and the like) I have been jovial, if perhaps a little crass, but believe me when I say I have not been intentionally insulting. If you're going to disagree with people, they're going to hurt your feelings eventually, whether they mean to or not. Responding by telling them how much smarter you are than they doesn't serve to encourage them to listen.
I will too be in prayer for your wife. I wish no sadness or pain on you, certainly.
I will too be in prayer for your wife. I wish no sadness or pain on you, certainly.
-
2
-
2
- Show all
"5 and to him who is not working, and is believing upon Him who is declaring righteous the impious, his faith is reckoned — to righteousness" - Romans 4:5 YLT
'Believing here, as you probably well know, is 'pisteuō '. It's a present tense verb in the participle mood. Which means it can used as a noun or a verb:
Definition of "Participle"
Corresponds for the most part to the English participle, reflecting "-ing" or "-ed" being suffixed to the basic verb form. The participle can be used either like a verb or a noun, as in English, and thus is often termed a "verbal noun."
https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/rom/4/1/t_conc_1050005
Do you have any problems with this?
'Believing here, as you probably well know, is 'pisteuō '. It's a present tense verb in the participle mood. Which means it can used as a noun or a verb:
Definition of "Participle"
Corresponds for the most part to the English participle, reflecting "-ing" or "-ed" being suffixed to the basic verb form. The participle can be used either like a verb or a noun, as in English, and thus is often termed a "verbal noun."
https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/rom/4/1/t_conc_1050005
Do you have any problems with this?
E
believe or believing is also a datative, in this case it would be a datative of means. It is on the account of believing that one is reckoned righteous
romans 4 previously shows us that one act of faith made abraham accounted as righteous. We fine this even occured in gen 15:6,in this one act of faith, became the means of the fact abraham was accounted as righteous.
her in vs 5, paul is stating a fact, if we two have this act of faith, this act of faith or believing is the means by which we two are declared righteous
it is a one time even, not an ongoing process.
romans 4 previously shows us that one act of faith made abraham accounted as righteous. We fine this even occured in gen 15:6,in this one act of faith, became the means of the fact abraham was accounted as righteous.
her in vs 5, paul is stating a fact, if we two have this act of faith, this act of faith or believing is the means by which we two are declared righteous
it is a one time even, not an ongoing process.
-
2
- Show all
He wasn't 33 years in some "Stanford level" Christian education. It's all made up "credentials." How many people spend 33 years in a University under some alleged Christian "guru" who has some 65 years of "expertise?"
No one.
This has nothing to do with Mormonism, it is simply a bunch of fabricated baloney.
No one.
This has nothing to do with Mormonism, it is simply a bunch of fabricated baloney.
-
1
- Show all
Justification in Christ is secured the moment you believe in Christ. And you remain justified in God's sight as long as you are believing.
As our Biblical example of this, Paul told the Galatians that they lose the effect of Christ in justification by going back to the law for justification. This is how he literally said it to them:
"2 if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing"
"3 I testify again to every man circumcised...4 ye were freed from the Christ,
"ye who in law are declared righteous; from the grace ye fell away"
Galatians 5:2-4 Young's Literal Translation
Three times he said it:
If you get circumcised Christ will be of no value to you.
To every circumcised man, you have been set free from Christ.
You who are justified by law, you have fallen away from grace.
We are all free to think we are able, or not able, to fall away from faith in Christ for justification. Each of us has the freedom to think what we want about that. But what is clear, if you do, you will lose justification in Christ. But, as evidenced by the Galatians, God may give you space to reconsider before He turns you over permanently to your rejection of Christ. At which time you can't come back even if you wanted to. He doesn't allow it because that puts Christ to open shame.
As our Biblical example of this, Paul told the Galatians that they lose the effect of Christ in justification by going back to the law for justification. This is how he literally said it to them:
"2 if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing"
"3 I testify again to every man circumcised...4 ye were freed from the Christ,
"ye who in law are declared righteous; from the grace ye fell away"
Galatians 5:2-4 Young's Literal Translation
Three times he said it:
If you get circumcised Christ will be of no value to you.
To every circumcised man, you have been set free from Christ.
You who are justified by law, you have fallen away from grace.
We are all free to think we are able, or not able, to fall away from faith in Christ for justification. Each of us has the freedom to think what we want about that. But what is clear, if you do, you will lose justification in Christ. But, as evidenced by the Galatians, God may give you space to reconsider before He turns you over permanently to your rejection of Christ. At which time you can't come back even if you wanted to. He doesn't allow it because that puts Christ to open shame.