Not By Works

[Judges1318]

What is the salvation process in your understanding?

This is how you 'get saved':

‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
14“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God." - Luke 18:13-14


But I think this is what you're looking for:

“Believe in (or 'on') the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved" - Acts 16:31

 

[Pisteuo]

This is how you 'get saved':

‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
14“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God." - Luke 18:13-14


But I think this is what you're looking for:

“Believe in (or 'on') the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved" - Acts 16:31

Are you part of the believe and recieve crowd?

 

[Judges1318]

Are you part of the believe and recieve crowd?

If that means the following, then, 'yes', I am part of that crowd:

24 "...whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." - Mark 11:24

"5 ...to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness." - Romans 4:4-5

 

[Pisteuo]

If that means the following, then, 'yes', I am part of that crowd:

24 "...whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." - Mark 11:24

"5 ...to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness." - Romans 4:4-5

Why do you separate yourself from the other believe and recievers?

 

[Judges1318]

Why do you separate yourself from the other believe and recievers?

Before I answer that, tell me how I'm separate from them.

 

[VCO]

This is how you 'get saved':

‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
14“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God." - Luke 18:13-14


But I think this is what you're looking for:

“Believe in (or 'on') the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved" - Acts 16:31

NO, REPENT of your SINS, and RECEIVE AND TOTALLY TRUST JESUS AS YOU LORD, which MEANS MASTER, FOR YOUR SALVATION.


Romans 10:9-10 (HCSB)
9 If you confess [a genuine CONFESSION, must be in YOUR HEART FIRST, before can say it as a confession] with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 One believes with the heart, resulting in righteousness, and one confesses with the mouth, resulting in salvation.

Revelation 3:3 (NKJV)
3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you.

 

[mailmandan]

So your making a decision to" believe" right? That's takes more work than NT pisteuo," surrender."

No, believing is not a work that merits salvation and it's also not just another work in a series of works in a quest to receive salvation by works. Through believing, we are completely trusting in "Another's work," (Christ's finished work of redemption - Romans 3:24-28). Jesus gets all the merit. By believing I am simply receiving the gift of eternal life and not working for salvation.

 

[mailmandan]

I get my understanding of Faith applied from the Greek Scriptures, you get yours from the translated English Scriptures.

You get your biased understanding of Faith from a teacher who has a theology degree from Stanford.

Second, pisteuo correctly defined is three specific things, that together communicate what saving Faith is.
1) a personal surrender to Him.
2) a belief that He will accept, guide, maintain, and complete the surrendered life.
3) sustained by confidence. Which means we make all of our hundreds of daily decisions based on the fact our lives are nolonger our, but His now.
Now, I've been taught for over 33 years by a teacher who has a Theology degree from Stanford, able to read and translate any ancient text, and ownes the largest collection of Biblical manuscripts in private hands behind the Vatican. I'm not going to give you pearls that you don't want just to trample all over them. You need to start with fulfilling pisteuo correctly!

The Greek doesn't allow work and effort to be separated from pisteuo. Only the people who have built their understanding on the mistranslated words believe, believer, and believing cry works salvation. And I'm proving to you that the mistranslations even take work and effort! So it's back to the drawing board for you.

Through your distorted view of the Greek and skewed view of the Vine's Dictionary, you are trying to "shoe horn" works "into" salvation through faith. The Greek words for "pistis" and "pisteuo" are two forms of the same word. "Pistis" is the noun form, "pisteuo" is the verb form. Nothing in the root meaning of either word carries any concept of works. If you believe in/have faith in Christ for salvation, then you are trusting in Him alone to save you. Although saving belief results in actions appropriate to the belief (to one degree or the other/all genuine believers are fruitful, yet not all are equally fruitful) - the actions are NOT INHERENT in the belief. *Prior to my conversion, while still attending the Roman Catholic church, I also was confused about this (just as you are now) and basically defined faith "as" obedience/works.

I get my understanding of Faith from the Greek Scriptures. I have a Strong's expanded exhaustive concordance of the Bible and Pisteuo #4100 says - to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), to entrust (especially one's spiritual well being to Christ). It goes on to say, pisteuo means not just to believe, but also to be persuaded of; and hence, to place confidence in, to trust, and signifies, in this sense of the word, reliance upon. *So saving faith is (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ for salvation.

So you have proved absolutely nothing and it's back to the drawing board for you.
Let me know when you are ready to repent and believe the gospel.

 

[mailmandan]

Trusting God is me trying to preserve myself?

Continued trust through self effort is you trying to preserve yourself. You said it yourself.

You're right. I'm beginning to see now that the Bible teaches a works gospel.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Continued trust through self effort is you trying to preserve yourself. You said it yourself.

He has been teaching that since day 1

 

[preacher4truth]

Star keeps talking about how 'holding fast' is works salvation. Then I show her the 'holding fast' scriptures, so I have no choice but to conclude that the Bible teaches salvation is by works.

" 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you." - 1 Corinthians 15:2

Even if this is 'descriptive', not 'prescriptive', you still have to hold firmly to the word or you're not saved.


No, I understand the difference between them quite well.
Both are accomplished through having faith in Christ. Yet, having faith is called 'works' in this thread.
I'm not aware of any scripture that says having faith is you trying to justify/sanctify yourself.

I get what you’re saying now. These antinomians are so averse to evidence of conversion, any type of works that as soon as they hear the word they think “works gospel.”

 

[preacher4truth]

Gotta be yours to talk about first! I'm waiting for you guys to begin true NT Faith. You admit you don't know what that is, I've told you, what are you waiting for? First things first!

I’ve thoroughly answered you with Scripture proving you wrong. You’ve addressed none of them. Zero.

 

[EleventhHour]

You never answered question!

How do you "believe " that Christ will give you salvation without work or effort?

Belief is not based on effort

Belief is being persuaded, convinced...it passive...one cannot force themselves to believe.

It is you who does understand belief

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I get what you’re saying now. These antinomians are so averse to evidence of conversion, any type of works that as soon as they hear the word they think “works gospel.”

thats not what is happening here.

We see what Judges say, and call it works gospel. because it is.

He is not talking about works which all people who are saved do out of their new nature. He is talking about works which are required. Otherwise, a person loses salvation.

He also uses faith as a "back door" to make it appear he does not teach works. by claiming if you have lost faith, you will cease from works. hence your salvation is gone.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Belief is not based on effort

Belief is being persuaded, convinced...it passive...one cannot force themselves to believe.

It is you who does understand belief

one can believe and not be saved. (even demons believe) Belief is not even what saves, FAITH is the means of which by grace we have been saved.

 

[EleventhHour]

Continued trust through self effort is you trying to preserve yourself. You said it yourself.

Yes ... he was even told this when he was Ralph
Someone is in huge denial about they really believe

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes ... he was even told this when he was Ralph
Someone is in huge denial about they really believe

most of them are. Because they know the bible does not support what they say

 

[EleventhHour]

I get what you’re saying now. These antinomians are so averse to evidence of conversion, any type of works that as soon as they hear the word they think “works gospel.”

Not really ... amazing you levy the same accusation as those who work for salvation

 

[preacher4truth]

Continued trust through self effort is you trying to preserve yourself. You said it yourself.

Can you or @Judges1318 show me where he stated this? I’d like to see it in context. I’m not thinking he’s a works salvation person, perhaps his wording makes it appear thus? For the record @Pisteuo is definitely a works salvationist.

 

[preacher4truth]

Not really ... amazing you levy the same accusation as those who work for salvation

Not at all. You are missing the point altogether, but this is likely willful on your part.

There is such a thing as evidence of conversion, works that show this, and a distinction between justification and sanctification.

Many people think if they have the former they don’t need the latter and all it entails in its synergistic cooperation as a result of genuine conversion. Philippians 2:12-13 and Ezekiel 36:26-27 are two texts that show this. If a person claims the former but does not have the latter they have neither.

But, I’m not about to go back and forth with you over it as I’ve found you to be irrational and unreasonable and you will only continue to disagree with these plain truths and make false and baseless accusations.

I would invite you to read up on holiness, justification and sanctification, unless you already know so much you’re beyond relearning or broadening your understanding. I suspect you’re not willing and already know it all. The book “Holiness” by J C Ryle is a recommendation for you.