Not By Works

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posthuman said:
as i see it what you're talking about is after surrendering, e.g. Colossians 1:29 'striving according to His working which works in me mightily' or Hebrews 1:24 'striving against sin'

in the context of surrender, it is very simply laying down ones arms. conceding defeat. putting no more effort into resistance. this is an entirely passive act: it is the changing from active to passive. a soldier who is engaged in the act of surrender to his enemy is dropping his weapons and raising his arms in the air, doing nothing but offering himself as a captor & waiting for what his erstwhile opponent will do with him. it is effectually an implicit plea for mercy.

one who shows an open hand in this way ((rather than a fist)) may afterwards strive in what is required of him by his new master, but that isn't the act of surrender but a consequence of it.



i do not agree with this in the way it is stated.
in the very moment i put away my sword, i have surrendered.


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if i only feint - as though if Obi-Wan had pretended to drop his guard only to coerce Vader into committing to a certain strike, which he planned to parry and counter, then i have not actually 'surrendered'
Obi-Wan here truly surrenders, and it is over in an instant; the instant in which he does not move to block Vader's imminent fendente.
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I agree with your warfare analogy. We surrender just like on a battlefield. With the only expectation of being a (
in this case willing) slave to the one surrendered to.
 
Pisteuo said:
I agree with your warfare analogy. We surrender just like on a battlefield. With the only expectation of being a (
in this case willing) slave to the one surrendered to.
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i think that's where your understanding is clashing with that of some of the other people here -- i would call those acts of servitude that follow a result of surrender, not the act of surrender -- but i get the relationship you're drawing out ;)
a person who refuses the orders of the military they've surrendered to, or who tries to escape, or who tries to sabotage that army somehow once they've been taken captive, isn't truly 'surrendered' - not in their heart - they haven't given up the war but only one segment of a battle.
 
posthuman said:
i think that's where your understanding is clashing with that of some of the other people here -- i would call those acts of servitude that follow a result of surrender, not the act of surrender -- but i get the relationship you're drawing out ;)
a person who refuses the orders of the military they've surrendered to, or who tries to escape, or who tries to sabotage that army somehow once they've been taken captive, isn't truly 'surrendered' - not in their heart - they haven't given up the war but only one segment of a battle.
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Right, to gain something for themselves.

And like I said, a daily surrender isn't a perfect surrender, but a surrender being perfected.
 
Pisteuo said:
Right, to gain something for themselves.

And like I said, a daily surrender isn't a perfect surrender, but a surrender being perfected.
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God is perfect and only a perfect sacrifice will do and that perfect sacrifice is JESUS CHRIST

I suggest humbling yourself before God and accept Him .. and get over your yourself and this delusion of perfect surrender that requires nothing in return.

No one has the capacity to be that selfless >>> only Jesus
 
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Pisteuo said:
No such thing as" believe and recieve." There's a process that needs to unfold.

I'm saying that a Continually surrendered life takes work and effort, courage and endurance. And a Continually surrendered life"is" saving Faith applied.

Any good works that follow are the result of that surrendered life. God's nature flowing through the sealed vessel.
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This is your false gospel right here >>>>>> "earn your way; make yourself equal to God so He has no basis to judge you"
Change your thinking while there is still time
 
Pisteuo said:
Christ and his word must be ours to talk about. A surrendered life must come first. Present yourself as a living sacrifice.
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Pisteuo said:
And like I said, a daily surrender isn't a perfect surrender, but a surrender being perfected.
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It sounds to me like you are confusing justification with ongoing sanctification, which is typical of works-salvationists. :cautious:
 
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