Notice:
"...ask Jesus why he called me ......"
Forgive me Lord. Though you did give me that sense of humor.
So what..the context was clear see how that works out for you....!
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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So what..the context was clear see how that works out for you....!
Wheat and tares. Goat and sheep. Christ is not divided but the church is. Not all "in the body of Christ" have submitted to His righteousness nor believe His gospel.
My brother, you have no weapon that will ever prevail against me or anyone else who places their trust in Jesus Christ.
E
EleventhHour
Guest
if they have not submitted to His righteousness or have not yet believed the Gospel how can they be in the "body of Christ"
The quotes are because that would be their claim. That being said, the CHURCH is the body of Christ and within our "churches" or members there are wheat and tares. Goat and sheep. Believers and false believers.
These are specifically addressed in scripture.
Do you believe a tare would represent ALL in unbelief or specifically false believers?
E
EleventhHour
Guest
The "Church" is the ekklesia correct .. the "called out ones"
These can only be believers.
Within the body of Christ are only those who are His.
I have to think on the rest of your post.
The "Church" is the ekklesia correct .. the "called out ones"
These can only be believers.
Within the body of Christ are only those who are His.
I have to think on the rest of your post.
You missed my point sis.
John 15
1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Two sorts of branches
branches that bare fruit
"every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit"
"He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit"
and branches that do not bare fruit
"If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned"
"As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself"
______
I believe in me, would be those in the church, the body of Christ.... (before man.... not God who knows all things)
Some of which who may be "in Him" are not actually born again
I believe these verses have absolutely nothing to do with a born again child of God, being thrown into fire...
Fruit = God working in someone to produce
Void of any fruit = Because it is impossible without God
I believe these verses to specifically be pointing at His power and the lack of powet in fakers
Matthew 13:24-30
24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
_______
I believe these tares to be people who would call themselves Christians.
E
EleventhHour
Guest
You missed my point sis.
John 15
1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Two sorts of branches
branches that bare fruit
"every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit"
"He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit"
and branches that do not bare fruit
"If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned"
"As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself"
______
I believe in me, would be those in the church, the body of Christ.... (before man.... not God who knows all things)
Some of which who may be "in Him" are not actually born again
I believe these verses have absolutely nothing to do with a born again child of God, being thrown into fire...
Matthew 13:24-30
24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
_______
I believe these tares to be people who would call themselves Christians.
With regards to the the wheat and tares I know the traditional understanding of it but how does that relate to his audience who had not knowledge of denominations, church buildings etc.,?
matthew 24 : goes into the false prophets who come in His name as well as the end times
matthew 25: goes into these who are decieved....
It relates in principal, which I felt like maybe you misunderstood in your response....
Star mentioned these decieved people. These tares.... Eg did as well.... he was then questioned "
Why must it be they or them or us and we? Is Christ divided? Does any other blood cover our sins ?
This thread is a stain on what God is.......love!
Warning: This is a fly by remark. Will get no response!"
I chimed in how not all "in Him" or in our churches or amongst us are His.
and they GOD told us to be watchful "beware"
i am not sure what your questions are so i still feel misunderstood
everything i said is factual....
E
EleventhHour
Guest
I think we are talking about two different things... I have gone off on a tangent.
I get it now, yes I have misunderstood.
If i could just put it this way with regards to
IFOLLOWHIM and her post...it is not about wheat and tares...it is about defending the Gospel....about essential doctrine not about who is wheat and who is a tare.
So I think this is why we are not understanding each other
I don’t seek a pass on believing and I believe in/have faith in/ trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of my salvation. Your idea of believing, along with surrender culminates in salvation by works. Man is saved through faith and not by works. You can’t have it both ways.
You do know that the KJV was just a paraphrase of the 6 older English Version, mainly to UP DATE really OLD English into the English spoken by KING JAMES, and correct Known Errors, while they actually missed of the Errors? Their Translation TEAM admitted it in their Oringinal 1611 PREFACE. Here you can read it for your self: https://www.ccel.org/bible/kjv/preface/pref1.htm
Your Statement above is NOT QUITE ACCURATE:
Ephesians 2:8-9 (HCSB)
8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift—
9 not from works, so that no one can boast.
THAT SAVING FAITH, is PART OF GOD's GIFT TO YOU. When HE SAVED us BEFORE TIME BEGAN.
2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.
P
Pisteuo
Guest
"My yoke is easy, and my burden is light". it's still a yoke, it's still a burden!
P
Pisteuo
Guest
If we were truly brothers " in Christ," the weaponry Im addressing would be our common bond, our joy to share with each other. If I were to use that to persuade you, it would destroy your current understanding. Force you to choose another path. That's where I must draw the line.
You've made it clear your current path is where you want to stay for now, so be it
I'll see you on the other side!
P
Pisteuo
Guest
Do you really think that nothing happens when His Spirit is sealed into a called out one?
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Ah, the man who named himself faith, yet has no comprehension of what true living faith is.
thats makes sense,
no desire to go that path again, that’s why he is hidden
Wisdom calls aloud outside;
she raises her voice in the open squares.
She cries out in the chief concourses,
at the openings of the gates in the city
she speaks her words:
“how long, you simple ones, will you love simplicity?"
(Proverbs 1:20-22)
oddly enough the scriptures indicate that the ones on the wide path love simple. (Proverbs 1:20-22)
How do you recognise the fullness of Yeshua's/Jesus's sacrifice for your salvation?