Genesis 6:1-2 Revisited. Unredeemable

[massorite]

That's a huge leap of logic to assume they were not fully men and therefore unredeemable when the scriptures in many places calls them men.

A good student of the Bible should always look up and research the true meaning of every single word in every verse the student is trying to understand
Ok so I have read a lot of these replies and there are a few thing I might be able to contribute to help folks understand about the "fallen angels".
First of all there is no redemption for any of the fallen angels because they knew what the were doing and what the were giving up when they Grace. When they gave up their habitation and former estate they went from immortal to mortal and were no longer allowed back into heaven, "The abode of God". Can you imagine how surprised they must have been when they discovered that they were changed from immortal beings into mortal giant men who could be killed because of their bad choices.
Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
The fallen angels willingly gave up their "Former Estate" which was immortality and an eternity of praising God and they willingly left their "Own Habitation". They gave up living with God in heaven to live here on earth. Angels were created to live for ever.
Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
These two verses from the book of Job are talking about a time before the fall of Satan and his angels. In verse 38:7 when it says "When the morning stars sang together" it is talking about both Satan and Christ singing together in praise to God and when the verse says "all of the sons of God shouted for joy" it is talking about when "ALL" of the angels shouted for joy as one third of the angels fell from Grace to follow after Satan.
But the angels in Tartarus are yet another group of fallen angels. I know that the book of Enoch is not in the Bible but it does exist. In fact there are 6 books mentioned in the Bible that are not in the Word of God. Anyways in the book of Enoch it talks about how God sent 200 angels down to earth to help mankind, however the angels taught mankind the "Ways of the plants" and what did we get from plants??? Drugs. So it is my belief that the angels reserved unto judgment will also be judged at the Great White Throne Judgment.
2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
So there are three groups of Angels, The heavenly host, The angels who were cast down to earth and the Angels reserved in chains unto judgment.

 

[JaumeJ]

Satan and his demons ARE judged along with any other fallen angels. That is if the rest of the Word is faithful on the fubject, and I believe….it is.

 

[crossnote]

What if [all] demons are not "fallen angels" - but rather - are the [souls of] "bastard human" children of fallen angels from long past...?

Impossible. For the resurrection of the unjust has not happened yet, besides...
Hebrews 9:27 KJV
[27] And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

 

[crossnote]

A good student of the Bible should always look up and research the true meaning of every single word in every verse the student is trying to understand
Ok so I have read a lot of these replies and there are a few thing I might be able to contribute to help folks understand about the "fallen angels".
First of all there is no redemption for any of the fallen angels because they knew what the were doing and what the were giving up when they Grace. When they gave up their habitation and former estate they went from immortal to mortal and were no longer allowed back into heaven, "The abode of God". Can you imagine how surprised they must have been when they discovered that they were changed from immortal beings into mortal giant men who could be killed because of their bad choices.
Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
The fallen angels willingly gave up their "Former Estate" which was immortality and an eternity of praising God and they willingly left their "Own Habitation". They gave up living with God in heaven to live here on earth. Angels were created to live for ever.
Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
These two verses from the book of Job are talking about a time before the fall of Satan and his angels. In verse 38:7 when it says "When the morning stars sang together" it is talking about both Satan and Christ singing together in praise to God and when the verse says "all of the sons of God shouted for joy" it is talking about when "ALL" of the angels shouted for joy as one third of the angels fell from Grace to follow after Satan.
But the angels in Tartarus are yet another group of fallen angels. I know that the book of Enoch is not in the Bible but it does exist. In fact there are 6 books mentioned in the Bible that are not in the Word of God. Anyways in the book of Enoch it talks about how God sent 200 angels down to earth to help mankind, however the angels taught mankind the "Ways of the plants" and what did we get from plants??? Drugs. So it is my belief that the angels reserved unto judgment will also be judged at the Great White Throne Judgment.
2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
So there are three groups of Angels, The heavenly host, The angels who were cast down to earth and the Angels reserved in chains unto judgment.

Regarding the Peter passage, I'll have to agree with John Gill in linking it with the fall of Lucifer and the 'angels' he took with him rather than Gen 6....

"2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned..... By whom are meant the devil and his angels; who are spirits created by God and as such were good; their first estate which they left was pure and holy, as well as high and honourable; they, were at first in the truth, though they abode not in it; they were once among the morning stars and sons of God, and were angels of light; their numbers are many, and therefore are here expressed in the plural number, "angels", though it cannot be said how large; a legion of them was in one man; one at first might be in the rebellion, and draw a large number with him into it, at least was at the head of it, who is called Beelzebub, the prince of devils: what their first sin was, and the occasion of it..."

 

[Adstar]

That's a huge leap of logic to assume they were not fully men and therefore unredeemable when the scriptures in many places calls them men.

If you breed a horse with a donkey you do not get a horse.. You get a mule.. The mule is not and never will be a horse..

 

[Moses_Young]

But why a coming judgment (with fire)? Aren't we just as wicked but without the 'intermarriage' of angels and men or are we to say there are 'people' walking around today 'half demon, half man' who are unredeemable?

The sin of the angels with women is compared to sodomy. I would guess that genetic manipulation of man with beasts likewise produces abominable creatures.

 

[Hungry]

I think the major hang up that we face is thinking that an angel is a spirit. Firstly, the term given to heavenly residents is elohim. Angel just means messenger. There is no reason to believe that we are talking about spirits. The reference to unclean spirits could possibly be the disembodied spirits of the Nephalim. These bodies are only vessels, machines, designed for doing the Lord’s work. Geneticists, I’m confident are quite capable of engineering hybrids. It’s not the science that stops them it’s the ethics. How do we know that there isn’t physical beings among us that are just invisible to our optical spectrum. Bee keepers wear white because bees can’t see white. That way they are invisible. When Elijah helped Elisha see the chariots, when Christ healed the blind man and he saw men walking around like trees and when Stephen saw the Lord before death, is it possible these are physical just not perceivable? Is it not possible that there are other physical heavenly beings that could engineer vessels capable for non human spirits to inhabit? Clearly we have allowed our preconceptions to draw potentially flawed images of reality. When I read the words written in the Bible it plays out more like modern day science fiction. In Genesis, it states Jehovah (self existent God) of elohim (gods) made man in His image to work for Him. We were slaves made in His image (likeness). In every other part of the Bible that means we should look like Him. We only presume it means spiritually because we can’t fathom Him to be humanoid even though He and the “angels” appear humanoid at every occurrence. Regardless, if you just read the Bible it’s like Jehovah, made an artificial intelligent being, that resembles Him (us), then we rebelled and were convinced by an ex-employee (Lucifer) to serve him instead. Along the way some other employees tried to steal the technology to make their own design (Nephalim), which ended in a global flood. Now Jehovah sent His Son to the AI in an attempt to save them from their own destruction, returning them to their original purpose yet with upgrades.

 

[PennEd]

That's a huge leap of logic to assume they were not fully men and therefore unredeemable when the scriptures in many places calls them men.

Scripture in several places refers to angels as men. Scripture also calls Jesus a man. Not really a valid objection.

 

[crossnote]

If you breed a horse with a donkey you do not get a horse.. You get a mule.. The mule is not and never will be a horse..

True, but in this case the assumption is that angels breeded with women. Perhaps that is why the Bible calls them 'men', because there was no crossbreeding.

 

[crossnote]

Scripture in several places refers to angels as men. Scripture also calls Jesus a man. Not really a valid objection.

Ok, so we're back at square one, with no solid proof that angels had intercourse with men.
Scripture puts forth Jesus as man but also as God. Where do we see these crossbreeds as angels?

 

[garee]

Genesis 6 King James Version (KJV)And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

The same giants of faith superstars as sons of God

I would offer. Angels which simply means "messenger" with no other meaning attached like: "visible giants that somehow procreate with humans" .They are unseen spirits or lies (no DNA). What I call Hollywood style a lust to the eye. . No procreation making tall monsters.

Messengers like those sent From the Father to Jesus, to strengthen the Son with spiritual "words of encouragement from the father". Angels can be humans that bring the words of God as messengers called sons of God. Those that plant the incorruptible spiritual seed.

Flesh is flesh and Spirit is of spirit, they are separate. One formed from the spiritless dust the other no form breathed into as living creation..

Messengers as spiritual words. Christ's words are Spirit and they are the source of life (John 6). He alone as the faithful Creator can speak Spirit words and form DNA out of nothing. Let there be. . and there were rudiments

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Since believers have been delivered from wrestling against flesh and blood as new creatures having the treasure of His power in us we can overcome the unseen forces of evil. With our new the gift of faith.

Christians do not wrestles and against flesh and blood anymore that they could wrestles against spirits and principalities of the spirit if lies .It is His Spirit in us that can empower us to do His will

It is Christ's truth in us that sets us free when we do mix faith in what we see and hear. Then we know we have entered his rest..

The believers sons of God men of renown, or what some call giants of faith. They as superstars were being unevenly yoked procreating with "daughters of men" . "Daughters of men" A term used to identify those with no faith as it is written.

The whole context of that portion Genesis 6. God was protecting his incorruptible spiritual seed not seen. He killed one person called Onan for spilling it.

It is not a doctrine of making taller men evil . Neither does it give angels as inspired messages of God's words the power to procreate.

Inspired words as messengers of God cannot procreate. Human messengers that bring the gospel do have DNA they can

Nephilim meaning “heroes of old, men of renown” heroes of faith .

 

[Dino246]

Genesis 6 King James Version (KJV)And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

The same giants of faith superstars as sons of God

I would offer. Angels which simply means "messenger" with no other meaning attached like: "visible giants that somehow procreate with humans" .They are unseen spirits or lies (no DNA). What I call Hollywood style a lust to the eye. . No procreation making tall monsters.

Messengers like those sent From the Father to Jesus, to strengthen the Son with spiritual "words of encouragement from the father". Angels can be humans that bring the words of God as messengers called sons of God. Those that plant the incorruptible spiritual seed.

Flesh is flesh and Spirit is of spirit, they are separate. One formed from the spiritless dust the other no form breathed into as living creation..

Messengers as spiritual words. Christ's words are Spirit and they are the source of life (John 6). He alone as the faithful Creator can speak Spirit words and form DNA out of nothing. Let there be. . and there were rudiments

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Since believers have been delivered from wrestling against flesh and blood as new creatures having the treasure of His power in us we can overcome the unseen forces of evil. With our new the gift of faith.

Christians do not wrestles and against flesh and blood anymore that they could wrestles against spirits and principalities of the spirit if lies .It is His Spirit in us that can empower us to do His will

It is Christ's truth in us that sets us free when we do mix faith in what we see and hear. Then we know we have entered his rest..

The believers sons of God men of renown, or what some call giants of faith. They as superstars were being unevenly yoked procreating with "daughters of men" . "Daughters of men" A term used to identify those with no faith as it is written.

The whole context of that portion Genesis 6. God was protecting his incorruptible spiritual seed not seen. He killed one person called Onan for spilling it.

It is not a doctrine of making taller men evil . Neither does it give angels as inspired messages of God's words the power to procreate.

Inspired words as messengers of God cannot procreate. Human messengers that bring the gospel do have DNA they can

Nephilim meaning “heroes of old, men of renown” heroes of faith .

Where is the Scripture stating that angelic beings don't have DNA? I have asked you this several times, and you have not answered, but instead have continued repeating your blather. Step up and answer the question.

 

[massorite]

Where is the Scripture stating that angelic beings don't have DNA? I have asked you this several times, and you have not answered, but instead have continued repeating your blather. Step up and answer the question.

There is no such scripture that says that angelic beings don.t have DNA. But there is no scripture that says that angelic beings do have DNA.

 

[garee]

Where is the Scripture stating that angelic beings don't have DNA? I have asked you this several times, and you have not answered, but instead have continued repeating your blather. Step up and answer the question.

Sorry must of missed that one. I would offer.

Angels as wings of the wind that bring the spiritual words coming from God have no DNA. They are spiritual words of life sent from the author of life..

Jesus in John 6 had already declared DNA (flesh) as rudiments of this corrupted earth do not profit. The words that He speaks to us, they are spirit, and they are life.

Both spirit and life, as one work of two.

God is not made up of the rudiments of this world. God is not a man as us and neither is there any daysman between God and man.

Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground. Luke 22: 42-43



Angels bringing messages "from the Father" who has no DNA. Brings them upon the wings of the wind. They brought God's strengthening word of encouragement and the Son of man finished the labor of their love . No DNA.

They as living words can create DNA .The power of His tongue is life and death.

 

[garee]

There is no such scripture that says that angelic beings don.t have DNA. But there is no scripture that says that angelic beings do have DNA.

I would be careful with the idea of "angelic beings" It would seem to give them a personality of their own . Rather than wings of the wind messages sent from our unseen God.(prophecy) There can be messengers in the form of DNA as sons of God the believers. But the same applies, the spirit of the message is not of them . They relay spiritual substance of faith if God causes the growth.. The same mutual faith of Christ as it is written it works in us to both will and do His good pleasure.

 

[Dino246]

Sorry must of missed that one. I would offer.

Angels as wings of the wind that bring the spiritual words coming from God have no DNA. They are spiritual words of life sent from the author of life..

Jesus in John 6 had already declared DNA (flesh) as rudiments of this corrupted earth do not profit. The words that He speaks to us, they are spirit, and they are life.

Both spirit and life, as one work of two.

God is not made up of the rudiments of this world. God is not a man as us and neither is there any daysman between God and man.

Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground. Luke 22: 42-43



Angels bringing messages "from the Father" who has no DNA. Brings them upon the wings of the wind. They brought God's strengthening word of encouragement and the Son of man finished the labor of their love . No DNA.

They as living words can create DNA .The power of His tongue is life and death.

That's an extremely verbose way of saying that you have no evidence whatsoever.

 

[Dino246]

There is no such scripture that says that angelic beings don.t have DNA. But there is no scripture that says that angelic beings do have DNA.

Agreed. Garee and I have been discussing many things in the time he's been here. He continually makes assertions that don't have any basis in Scripture, but he argues them as though they do. I try to tell him that he's arguing from silence, but so far, he has not grasped the concept.

 

[garee]

That's an extremely verbose way of saying that you have no evidence whatsoever.

The evidence it would seem is as it is written .( sola scriptura)

Angels wings of the wind bring inspired spiritual messages (No DNA) from the Father .That serves there entire purpose. . . Spirits of truth that defends against spirits of un-truth .

The power of the message strengthened the Son as the Father poured out his unseen Spirit on the corrupted flesh of the Son of man Jesus.

What is your evidence? Do we need more that he has freely given us? Messages cannot procreate.They have no DNA

 

[PennEd]

Ok, so we're back at square one, with no solid proof that angels had intercourse with men.
Scripture puts forth Jesus as man but also as God. Where do we see these crossbreeds as angels?

Who said angels had sex with men? Unless you mean mankind?

The evidence is overwhelming and virtually conclusive. It has been laid out in at least a half a dozen similar threads the past 2 yrs by me and others. Do you need it again?

 

[PennEd]

Ok, so we're back at square one, with no solid proof that angels had intercourse with men.
Scripture puts forth Jesus as man but also as God. Where do we see these crossbreeds as angels?

Here ya go. I copy and pasted from another Nephilim thread.


Once in a while this comes up and I like to give a complete picture. We will not understand, or we will have to explain away through allegory and other means huge chunks of Scripture if we don't get this right. I no longer believe this is merely a hobby horse issue.

If garden variety sin (murder, adultery, hatred, blasphemy, etc...) was the cause of the Great Flood, then we better ALL start building an Ark! ( Actually, Jesus IS our Ark, and we are safe in Him today).

No. There was a specific sin, one that is close to or IS being duplicated today, that caused God to destroy the ancient World with a Flood, and will cause Him to destroy the World again through judgement, culminating with fire.

That sin was corrupting HIS creation. The Bible says ALL flesh had become corrupted.

Genesis 6:11-12 New King James Version (NKJV)
11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. 12 So God looked upon the earth, and indeed it was corrupt; for ALL flesh had corrupted their way on the earth.

God holds out ONLY Noah and his family, and I believe the animals that were on the Ark, as having incorrupted genes.

Genesis 6:9 New King James Version (NKJV)
Noah Pleases God
9 This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations. Noah walked with God.

Where do you think we get the word "genes" from? GENEology and GENErations.


So now we get to how this gene corruption happened. Well, Genesis 6:1-4 tells us it was when the Sons of God mated with the daughters of men. I believe they also corrupted the animals in some way. Similar to how we are mixing animal DNA today. Even with humans.

Understand there is ZERO corroborating Scripture to support the Sethite or Kings idea that they were the Beni-Elohim. In fact, NO human was a Son of God, except pre fall Adam, UNTIL Jesus Christ died, rose again, and WE became sons of God when we were born again, a NEW creation, from above.

Sons of God always refers to a Being made by God Himself. It is true that all are creations of God. But you are not a Child of God until you are born again.

Everyone born of Adam, INCLUDING SETH, was born in Adam's fallen state, likeness, or image, NOT GOD'S! Very important point:
Genesis 5:3 New King James Version (NKJV)
3 And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth.

While we may PHYSICALLY all be born in the likeness of God, we are SPIRITUALLY born in the likeness of FALLEN Adam. That's why Jesus had to come in the 1st place.

So how could the Sons of God be children of Seth or kings? They can't

Now the fallen angels.....
One of the most used points in saying the nephilim weren't the progeny of fallen angels and human women is the idea that angels can't have sex. And the main Scripture to support that idea is:
Matthew 22:30 New King James Version (NKJV)
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven.

This verse actually SUPPORTS the fallen angel mating view. Notice the last two words in that verse. IN HEAVEN.
It is precisely for this reason that they are held in Tartarus RIGHT NOW.

2 Peter 2:4 New King James Version (NKJV)
4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell (Tartarus) and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;

So what is the sin they committed?
Jude 6-7 New King James Version (NKJV)
6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Jude is relating the SEXUAL sin of Sodom and Gomorrah to a SEXUAL sin the fallen angels committed. The word "abode" or "habitation" in verse 6 (oiketerion) is used in only one other place in Scripture, and refers to the glorified Heavenly body we will receive upon our resurrection:
2 Corinthians 5:2 New King James Version (NKJV)
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation (oiketerion) which is from heaven,

These angels LEFT their heavenly bodies, and mated with human women, likely BECAUSE they were not allowed to procreate IN HEAVEN. That is the reason they are in Chains awaiting final judgement right now.

So, what about their offspring, the Nephilim? Have to tackle that later. Off now to Church....