Are you completely Born again????

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#221
Apr 7, 2014
25,463
13,405
113
58
#221
watcher2013 said:
Mar 16:16 KJV He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
That is directly from Jesus...
If you call that teaching of Jesus a cult....I rather be in that...
Click to expand...
Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. *NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the one requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#222
#222
mailmandan said:
Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. *NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the one requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Click to expand...
It just says is baptized it does not state what type of baptism it is
 
W

watcher2013

Senior Member
#223
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
108
63
#223
mailmandan said:
Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. *NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the one requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Click to expand...
This is a stupid analogy to defend believe only......
Those who do not believe are obviously not baptize....that's all there is..and hence condemned...
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#224
#224
watcher2013 said:
This is a stupid analogy to defend believe only......
Those who do not believe are obviously not baptize....that's all there is..and hence condemned...
Click to expand...
Look at youcondemn all those who have true faith but died before they could be baptized by any man
how nice of you to replace the baptism if God with the baptism of man
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#225
Apr 7, 2014
25,463
13,405
113
58
#225
watcher2013 said:
This is a stupid analogy to defend believe only......
Those who do not believe are obviously not baptize....that's all there is..and hence condemned...
Click to expand...
So you choose to ignore these verses in John that were directly from Jesus? (John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) Also, there are plenty of people who don't truly believe in Jesus unto salvation, yet get water baptized anyway. Such people may believe "mental assent" in the existence and historical facts about Jesus, including that His death, burial and resurrection "happened," yet such people are not trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation, but instead, are trusting in their baptism (along with other works) to save them.
 
W

watcher2013

Senior Member
#226
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
108
63
#226
eternally-gratefull said:
Look at youcondemn all those who have true faith but died before they could be baptized by any man
how nice of you to replace the baptism if God with the baptism of man
Click to expand...
Are you baptize in the name of some pastor? Or are you baptize in the name of the Lord...
Who does the cleansing? is it the baptizer or God or you...
The Baptist just dunk you in the water and you what did you do...you just dunk...and God did the rest...
Like believing.. the messenger preached what did you do.?.you received that message...but God did all the works..
It is not me who condemned but what the scriptures said...
 
W

watcher2013

Senior Member
#227
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
108
63
#227
mailmandan said:
So you choose to ignore these verses in John that were directly from Jesus? (John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) Also, there are plenty of people who don't truly believe in Jesus unto salvation, yet get water baptized anyway. Such people may believe "mental assent" in the existence and historical facts about Jesus, including that His death, burial and resurrection "happened," yet such people are not trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation, but instead, are trusting in their baptism to save them.
Click to expand...
Can you please one by quote the verse and tell me your opinion and one by one I will respond.
 
W

watcher2013

Senior Member
#228
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
108
63
#228
mailmandan said:
So you choose to ignore these verses in John that were directly from Jesus? (John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) Also, there are plenty of people who don't truly believe in Jesus unto salvation, yet get water baptized anyway. Such people may believe "mental assent" in the existence and historical facts about Jesus, including that His death, burial and resurrection "happened," yet such people are not trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation, but instead, are trusting in their baptism (along with other works) to save them.
Click to expand...
Even the devil believe and tremble..
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#230
Apr 7, 2014
25,463
13,405
113
58
#230
eternally-gratefull said:
It just says is baptized it does not state what type of baptism it is
Click to expand...
There are some people who believe it's Spirit baptism and others believe it's water baptism, but even if this verse is referring to water baptism, it does not prove that water baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation, as I explained in post #221. (y)
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#232
Apr 7, 2014
25,463
13,405
113
58
#232
watcher2013 said:
Even the devil believe and tremble..
Click to expand...
In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.
 
Jimbone

Jimbone

Senior Member
#234
Aug 22, 2014
2,953
961
113
44
#234
watcher2013 said:
As I said..the thief of the cross even if baptize that day his baptism has no effect...because Jesus have not rise from the dead that day...

Peter said..repent and be BAPTIZE...does it not mean water?...

Here again is Peter..
1Pe 3:20-21 KJV 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Jesus said..who believe and baptize shall be saved...

Peter said...baptism now save us....

Is that not clear...
Click to expand...
Nope it is not clear, and not true, I rebuke this false teaching and pray God open your eyes to truth. You are preaching a false gospel and need to repent. You rob God of His power with your works.

LOL WOW you're thick, Yes Peter said "repent and be BAPTIZE' smart donkey, while everybody from the upper room was running around praising God saved, and dry. Was there a tub in the upper room? Dude you're just brainwashed and it's sad. You're blindness is sad and being unable to understand even the most basic understanding of how the flesh can not save, and straight up denying that it's ALL God, makes me wonder if the truth is guiding you. I TOLD you that I KNOW I was saved before I displayed outwardly my commitment to Jesus by being Baptized in water. I tell you what, I'll put all my faith in Jesus and what He did, you go on and trust your swim. We will see whose works are burnt up.
 
W

watcher2013

Senior Member
#235
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
108
63
#235
mailmandan said:
Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. *NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the one requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Click to expand...
watcher2013 said:
This is a stupid analogy to defend believe only......
Those who do not believe are obviously not baptize....that's all there is..and hence condemned...
Click to expand...
The appropriate question for mark 16:16 is...why did Jesus include baptism in his statement?
Who believed AND baptize shall be saved.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#237
#237
watcher2013 said:
Are you baptize in the name of some pastor? Or are you baptize in the name of the Lord...
Who does the cleansing? is it the baptizer or God or you...
The Baptist just dunk you in the water and you what did you do...you just dunk...and God did the rest...
Like believing.. the messenger preached what did you do.?.you received that message...but God did all the works..
It is not me who condemned but what the scriptures said...
Click to expand...
I was baptized by God unto christ At conversion where I was born again


months later I was baptized by my pastor in water
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#239
#239
mailmandan said:
There are some people who believe it's Spirit baptism and others believe it's water baptism, but even if this verse is referring to water baptism, it does not prove that water baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation, as I explained in post #221. (y)
Click to expand...
That was my point bro. 2 explanations vs 1 for them
I will go with the 2
 
You must log in or register to reply here.