Why do marriages fail?

[Lanolin]

I think people have got to move with the times.
you dont need to plough if you have a no dig garden and if the ditches are already there, no need to keep on digging them. You do the work you need to do to feed your family and go reach out into your community.

a lot of people do not work solely just for themselves. there is a lot of community work that needs to be done that people neglect in favour of working for evil corporations. also not many woman really want to be trophy wives. No thanks. They are the most miserable women Ive met, stuck in these miserable keeping up appearances type of marriage, dying on the inside.

 

[presidente]

speak for yourself actually if a wife had to go out to work and earned more and the husband stayed at home to mind HIS OWN children that would totally earn respect. Cos minding children is hard work!!

I would rather hubby do that and bond with the children than have to hire someone else to do that important job. many ask the grandparents to do that but not all married couples have the grandparents.
it depends on your working situation.

as for dance degree, the flatmate was a dance teacher. she could have become a coreographer which does earn a lot but education wasnt just for 'getting a job' I think men dont understand how imprtant education is for women. who really wants to stay DUMB?

In the US, we send children to school for 13 years. They should be able to read and have some familiarity with science, literature, our governmental system, and have some math skills. Once you know how to read, you should be able to educate yourself. Not going to college does not mean that you have to stay dumb. You just don't have a degree to show which is table stakes for jobs with certain employers.

There are some skills and knowledge that would be hard to attain outside of a formal education environment. It would be hard to learn statistics or Greek without a teacher. But it is possible to buy textbooks and now with the Internet to learn these things by studying on your own. But it is difficult for most people to stay disicplined enough to do so without structure and a teacher. Colleges and universities provide both.

I am an assistant professor, so I am not against higher education. But when people treat getting a college degree almost like it is a religious requirements, that thinking seems wrong to me.

We are all products of our environment. Mom, dad, and maybe even your kindergarten and elementary school teachers will be proud of you if you get a college degree. Society says that is the thing to do. There were times when a woman was highly valued among other women for being a good wife and mother-- or for 'marrying well' by those who were concerned with wealth.

We also have a lot of student loan debt and a lot of majors for which there are not a lot of corresponding jobs, too. And the government will guarantee loans for nearly any education or training endeavor, even if employers in the economy are only demanding a small fraction of graduates with the skill sets offered by those majors. In faculty meetings, I hear the provost talking about employers emphasizing the importance of writing and social skills. But I can't help but think that the big employers in our area would rather hire an engineer or accountant who writes really well than an English major who knows nothing about accounting or engineers.
Our society need enough English majors to go on and pursue English degrees in higher ed if we are to stick with Gen Ed requirements, and enough English education majors for schools if we are going to stick teaching children reading, writing skills and literature as a means of teaching our cultural heritage. It is good to give people a choice to study what their interests are, but should the government subsidize everyone who wants to major in areas our economy does not need? Subsidizing student loans for naive and uninformed borrowers puts little pressure on universities to keep costs down, so student loan debt sky rockets.

 

[presidente]

speak for yourself actually if a wife had to go out to work and earned more and the husband stayed at home to mind HIS OWN children that would totally earn respect. Cos minding children is hard work!!

There are many, many women who would say that, even think that, but other feelings would creep up over time. I think a lot more men can handle the economic power of being the bread winner than women can. This could also serve to fuel an unsubmissive attitude in a woman-- "I'm bringing in the money, so I decide what to do with it, so I control the household"-- assuming there is a fire there to fuel in the woman's heart.

I'm not saying it can't work or that it is a sin. Some men get sick, too, and we all need to survive. I just think it is probably a suboptimal situation for most families.

I would rather hubby do that and bond with the children than have to hire someone else to do that important job. many ask the grandparents to do that but not all married couples have the grandparents.
it depends on your working situation.

I would agree that both parents need to be raising and teaching the children.

as for dance degree, the flatmate was a dance teacher. she could have become a coreographer which does earn a lot but education wasnt just for 'getting a job' I think men dont understand how imprtant education is for women. who really wants to stay DUMB?

I do not know much about job opportunities for dance majors, but I would think they would have to be limited. But I do not meet many dance majors and I suspect there are fewer of them than music majors. Are there way, way more dance degree holders than coreographer jobs? Do you have to live in New York or LA or join a travelling show to work in that field?

If someone has the training and the business skills, some of the dance studios may actually do well, but most people have to work for someone else first.

 

[Lanolin]

hmm I dont agree with the notion that men can handle economic power more than a woman can...to me that is sexist notion thinking women arent good with finances. Many women are more than capable accountants and have accountability, you dont see many women gambling money away as much as men do. Also, control and restriciton of finances is something many men do that disempowers women.

it also negates the fact that widows and single mothers do show they are able to cope with being the breadwinner if the dad dies or deserts the family. However it is up to the men(husbands) who need to show they can handle this FIRST as there is an order to marriage like it or not. if for any reason their job is made redundant the wife has to accept that she too has a responsibiltiy to contribute to keep the family afloat.

I know many women who actually might earn more than their husbands, but the husbands handle the finances for the whole family. and also the reverse, the husband earns the most but the wife does the finances. In some marriages its kept separate, the bills are paid with husbands earning and the wifes is extra for nest eggs.

there shouldnt be any sexist element to it like.. oh the husband earns the most and the wife has to beg to have anything to spend on groceries while he can spend on whatever big boy toys he likes. Um no.

 

[Lanolin]

not sure about the dance field but I think if you were serious about having your own dance company or teaching or wanting to be a judge or something like that and be internationally recognised you would need to show you had studied the various disciplines. Sorry I dont know much more about it but it is taken very seriously by people even though many might think its unimportant. There are professional dance troupes that go all over the world.
my flatmate did teach dance, like balloom etc. It wasnt as if she just studied it and didnt actually DO IT.

 

[presidente]

hmm I dont agree with the notion that men can handle economic power more than a woman can...to me that is sexist notion thinking women arent good with finances.

That wasn't what I was saying. I am talking about the fact that that some women, if they go out and earn the money and the man stays home may have difficulty with submitting to their husbands when it comes to financial decisions, or else subconsciously-- or consciously-- having difficulty respecting him if she's the one earning the money.

Of course, if statistics showed that men handled money better than women, it would not be immoral to point that out. I don't know of any evidence to that effect, though I have heard an expert talk about how more men are geniuses... and I believe math was the area under discussion. More men are also on the low end. The distribution is tighter around the middle for women, and more extreme for males.

Many women are more than capable accountants and have accountability, you dont see many women gambling money away as much as men do. Also, control and restriciton of finances is something many men do that disempowers women.

Since wives are supposed to submit to their husbands, wives having more financial power may actually be bad for marriage and society. Women working and the divorce rate seem to have a direct relationship in the US. There were a lot of other social changes like the sexual revolution and the philosophy of feminism accompanying this, too. Correlation does not prove causation, but there is probably some link between the two. Children being raised by daycare and schools (and TV and video games) as opposed to parents probably contributes to a lot of social ills.

it also negates the fact that widows and single mothers do show they are able to cope with being the breadwinner if the dad dies or deserts the family. However it is up to the men(husbands) who need to show they can handle this FIRST as there is an order to marriage like it or not. if for any reason their job is made redundant the wife has to accept that she too has a responsibiltiy to contribute to keep the family afloat.

Btw, are you British?

It is good if everyone can support themselves if they need to, financially. No room for women in the workplace would be a bad thing.

there shouldnt be any sexist element to it like.. oh the husband earns the most and the wife has to beg to have anything to spend on groceries while he can spend on whatever big boy toys he likes. Um no.

There is also the stereotype of the man earning the money and the shopaholic wife spending up all the money, too. Does a wife who does that qualify as a sexist? None of these extremes are good.

 

[Lanolin]

mmm I dont think it would be a problem because its not the amount of money being earned so much as how good one is in stewarding it. if you are a good steward on a small budget then you can cope with a bigger budget. ie faithful in small things, means you will be faithful in bigger things. it doesnt matter whos earning the money here. the point is how faithful you are and thats not gendered.

in marriage you agree to share your assets. they dont belong to just you anymore. they are for both of you.

 

[Lanolin]

yea I dont think those shopaholic wives are a testament to good stewardship. But if they have nothing better to do than shop, cos they dont have jobs of their own, it just sounds like they are idle rich.

I think the US is way too consumerist, look at all the junk they buy that ends up in storage cos they cant squash it into their mansions. Its just plain greed for both sexes there. The kinds of jobs the US economies are based on most are not actually productive jobs. historically they had slavery so that tells you a lot about the culture.

 

[Lanolin]

i was thinking of my cousin who moved to US, married an american lady and they had one son, he worked in investment banking and she was in accounting or something. anyway they were married for 15 years or so and then they split up, he never said why, he just bought his own apartment and moved out.
I think at the time she wasnt working, but she was looking after their son.

now son is off to uni. But he stayed in the same city. I just think the pressure of living in the city in an apartment can get to people. maybe. Its not like she didnt submit to him ...he didnt even tell her why he was leaving.
as far as I know they are not christians but its just kind of weird to leave someone like that. now he has another girlfirend whos also been divorced and they are spending up large doing couple things and living together so I dont know, maybe it was just convenience? He had always kind been about the money for it was going o america to seek his fortune. maybe the new gf is richer or likes the flashier lifestyle I dunno.

 

[Lanolin]

i think men need to be aware that women are quite capable of earning their own and to be independent and thats a good thing if in marriage that contributes to the household. Its not as if both have to work in the same company, although ma and pa businesses are probably easier to arrange work than two of you working in separate jobs but reality is cos of the high cost of living most people need TWO incomes just to pay rent. let alone buy a house THESE days.

and thats really hard on people who choose to live in 'nuclear families' which is such a destructive model of living that doesnt actually work for many families. . Most people, going back to bible times, lived in extended families and the whole village would raise the family.

 

[presidente]

yea I dont think those shopaholic wives are a testament to good stewardship. But if they have nothing better to do than shop, cos they dont have jobs of their own, it just sounds like they are idle rich.

Or idle women with credit cards.

I think the US is way too consumerist, look at all the junk they buy that ends up in storage cos they cant squash it into their mansions.

Most of us don't have mansions. The US has a lot of space, so there are some larger homes than in some other countries, especially outside of packed urban areas.

Its just plain greed for both sexes there.

If US was a race, I might say that is racist. I have lived oversees and I've witnessed greed in other lands.

The kinds of jobs the US economies are based on most are not actually productive jobs. historically they had slavery so that tells you a lot about the culture.

The US had a lot of factories in the 50's and 60's when there was a weak dollar due to Marshal Plan repayments and factories and economies in the countries hit hard by WWII had not yet recovered. Then, many other countries had cheap labor and developed factories and a lot of production went overseas. A lot of Americans work in the service sector, which is actually work. Many Americans would like to have factory jobs. We don't sit around all day with slaves fanning us and bringing us glasses of tea. Manufacturing still accounts for about $2.3 trillion of US GDP.

Btw, slavery was done away with in many states early on in the north where much of the industrialization was going on in the 1800s before the Civil War. But slavery ended in the 1860's. It does not have much to do with the decline in the number of factory jobs from the 1970's onward.

 

[Lon1934]

Im always shocked when I hear of a married couple splitting up. It makes me question a few things, especially if its a christian couple

we know marriage is no guarantee that adultery and unfaithfulness wont happen, but why is it so common these days even in the church. Is it because couples ARE unequally yoked to begin with or some other reason? or is it because of pressure to be married, and from being young and naive and maybe a bit blind to the responsibilites of raising a family, the commitment involved? not enough preparation?

for women is the desire to have children and then caring for them outweighing wifely duties, and for men is it the pressure of providing for the family that ends up splitting couples apart?

or is it simply hardness of heart? what do divorcees say about lessons they learned from being married? when you say marriage vows, arent you both supposed to MEAN what you say or is it just a token thing you do now?

from speaking with split couples my conclusions from observations of women are that they didnt really want to be married it was pressure to be married and not being able to say no, and also pressure to have children before being too old. some wanted childen MORE than wanting a husband thats what I seem to notice, and so chose badly, or put up with abuse, a husbands personal qualities didnt seem to matter over his ability to actually sire children. I really want people to be honest about the issue. Because why would people go to all the trouble of getting married, set up a house together and then just break up after a couple of years it does not make sense. and it also doenst make sense for any children caught in the middle of the drama.

I think many fail because of a lack of communication or poor communication from the beginning of the marriage.

 

[Lanolin]

I think many fail because of a lack of communication or poor communication from the beginning of the marriage.

yea. I think many people equate kissing and cuddling with communicating...? But when it comes to doing stuff like balancing household budgets and sorting out living arrngements or working roles nothing is talked about or written down...?
even peoples vows that they make arent WRITTEN DOWN.

 

[Lanolin]

Or idle women with credit cards.



Most of us don't have mansions. The US has a lot of space, so there are some larger homes than in some other countries, especially outside of packed urban areas.



If US was a race, I might say that is racist. I have lived oversees and I've witnessed greed in other lands.


its the legacy of slavery that still affects peoples attitudes to each other in the US. sadly.

The US had a lot of factories in the 50's and 60's when there was a weak dollar due to Marshal Plan repayments and factories and economies in the countries hit hard by WWII had not yet recovered. Then, many other countries had cheap labor and developed factories and a lot of production went overseas. A lot of Americans work in the service sector, which is actually work. Many Americans would like to have factory jobs. We don't sit around all day with slaves fanning us and bringing us glasses of tea. Manufacturing still accounts for about $2.3 trillion of US GDP.

Btw, slavery was done away with in many states early on in the north where much of the industrialization was going on in the 1800s before the Civil War. But slavery ended in the 1860's. It does not have much to do with the decline in the number of factory jobs from the 1970's onward.

 

[Lanolin]

Or idle women with credit cards.



Most of us don't have mansions. The US has a lot of space, so there are some larger homes than in some other countries, especially outside of packed urban areas.



If US was a race, I might say that is racist. I have lived oversees and I've witnessed greed in other lands.



The US had a lot of factories in the 50's and 60's when there was a weak dollar due to Marshal Plan repayments and factories and economies in the countries hit hard by WWII had not yet recovered. Then, many other countries had cheap labor and developed factories and a lot of production went overseas. A lot of Americans work in the service sector, which is actually work. Many Americans would like to have factory jobs. We don't sit around all day with slaves fanning us and bringing us glasses of tea. Manufacturing still accounts for about $2.3 trillion of US GDP.

Btw, slavery was done away with in many states early on in the north where much of the industrialization was going on in the 1800s before the Civil War. But slavery ended in the 1860's. It does not have much to do with the decline in the number of factory jobs from the 1970's onward.

its the legacy of slavery that still affects peoples attidues to each other in the US. sadly.
Greed seems more obvious in america because it was a huge land to be taken. not saying other countries didnt have similar problems but its very obviously an issue there.

another thing americans deal with is marriages of convenience for green cards.

 

[Lanolin]

If you dont know how to use a credit card, cut it up. Banks are notorious for just giving people credit cards without saying the consequences of having them...because it makes money for them when you forget to pay them each month. aside from compound interest it accrues it just encourgaes spending what you dont have. Its not just women who use them men do too and can be just as irresponsible.

In a marriage you share everything, so you do need to have a converstion around how you are going to spend or save what you BOTH have. one spouse cant buy an expensive home if the other doesnt want to live in it.

 

[presidente]

its the legacy of slavery that still affects peoples attidues to each other in the US. sadly.
Greed seems more obvious in america because it was a huge land to be taken. not saying other countries didnt have similar problems but its very obviously an issue there.

How much time have you spent in the US?

another thing americans deal with is marriages of convenience for green cards.

Most Americans who marry marry other Americans. The marriage of convenience for green cards is something I hear of happening among immigrants and those they want to bring over. My guess is that most green cards are for people who genuinely want to marry. My wife is Indonesian. I lived over there, so it took me a while to apply for a Green card, but we didn't marry for her to get a Greencard. If you are from different countries and want to marry and live together, someone has to get some immigration paperwork done.

 

[Lanolin]

yes but it may be genuinely wanting to marry or, is it genuinely wanting to live in another country..and who's country, you cant live in both. One has to give up their homeland. that is a big ask, to be cut off from your homeland and all the rest of your family.

 

[Lanolin]

How much time have you spent in the US?



Most Americans who marry marry other Americans. The marriage of convenience for green cards is something I hear of happening among immigrants and those they want to bring over. My guess is that most green cards are for people who genuinely want to marry. My wife is Indonesian. I lived over there, so it took me a while to apply for a Green card, but we didn't marry for her to get a Greencard. If you are from different countries and want to marry and live together, someone has to get some immigration paperwork done.

I just remember huge houses in the suburbs, huge supermarkets, huge cars, and the size of many of the people were double. In the US. NYC was pretty overwhelming, and New Jersey.
some US are very vociferous in their manner and language, but surprisingly, all the US couples I know that came to nz, or married, did not work out. I worked for an american lady and she told me that the american dream, as they call it, is for big house, big car, every year trading up to somewhere bigger and better on a never ending quest for more more more. It just sounded really bizarre.
it was the same with another american divorcee, I once drove down the street with her near my place, and she was disparaging everyone who lived in a one story home. .and she didnt think anything was WRONG with this.

so when people lament the state of the US, well, its not really surprising because their dreams dont actually fit with reality.

 

[Princesse]

@presidente

I agree with your sentiments regarding wage disparities in marriage. Some couples can deal with it and others struggle. Difficulties may arise on both ends. Too much assertion from her or not enough from him (as pertains to leadership).

Humans are apt to overestimate their willingness to change and ability to withstand hardships. We’re rarely drawing from personal experiences when we tell ourselves we can handle it. We fall prey to the pep talk or should’s which camouflage the truth.

For me, much of this boils down to three questions:

Am I willing to suffer? Am I willing to be inconvenienced? Am I willing to sacrifice?

I fill-in-the-blanks with important dreams, values, etc. We never assume our sacred cows may be on the chopping block. But I think it’s important to observe our response if they were.

Doing this exercise (and others like it) is very insightful. It alleviates the should’s and forces us to face the facts about ourselves and the other person. Sanctification is a process and swimming uphill grows tiresome after a while.

Now I consider prospects which feed my spirit, align with my purpose, and present a shared mission we will work towards. I consider the flaws I can tolerate without significant harm. Imperfections are a fact of life.

Thus, we love the Lord and struggle with... That’s what we’re really getting.

~princesse