Was Abraham's covenant with God conditional or unconditional?

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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#61
Jul 8, 2018
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#61
FlyingDove said:
The verses in my signature are simply favorites of mine.

Find here my reply to your implication that salvation is but temporary

1st: Jesus atoning sacrifice/sin payment & our sanctification were done ONCE for ALL SINS. The Holy Spirit is Christ's eternal salvation seal/promise.

Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

2 Tim 1:14 Refer's to the Holy Spirit as a Guard & Deposit.

2 Cor 5:5, Eph 1:14 & 2 Cor 1:22. Refer to the Holy Spirit as "the earnest" = Pledge or Promise.

Eph 1:13, 2 Cor 1:22 & Eph 4:30 Refer to the Holy Spirit as a Seal.

2 Tim 1:14 The Holy Spirit who dwells within us, guard the good deposit entrusted to you
(NOTE: The Holy Spirit dwelling within us. Is God's deposit & guards us until the day of redemption)

2 Cor 5:5 God, who also hath given unto us the "earnest" of the Spirit
(NOTE: God's Holy Spirit dwelling within us is the earnest. Earnest translated from the Greek word: arrabon. Also means a pledge)

2 Cor 1:22 Who hath also "sealed us" & "given the earnest" of the Holy Spirit in our hearts
(NOTE: God has placed His Holy Spirit in the believers heart. As a pledge & a SEAL until the soon coming day of our redemption)

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
(NOTE: You heard about Christ's finished sin redemptive payment & resurrection. When you believed/trusted, Christ sealed/baptized you with His Holy Spirit).

Eph1:14 Which is the "earnest" of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession
(NOTE: The Holy Spirit bywhich Christ baptizes/seals & indwells us. Is the earnest = a down paymnt, a pledge, a promise, a guarantee)

Eph 4:30 grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are "sealed" unto the day of redemption
(NOTE: Believers are SEALED with God's Holy Spirit. It's a pledge, pomise, guard & guarentee that Christ will come for us)

1 John 5:13 13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
(NOTE: John writes: that you may know ""PRESENT TENSE"" that you have eternal life)

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
(NOTE: God doesn't go back on His Word or Promises)

Synopsis:
Holy Spirit prophesized by Jesus, poured out when the day of Pentecost was fully come. Referred to as a Seal, a Deposit , the Earnest, a Down Payment, reread Ehp 4:30 3 scripture above.)

The Law of sin & death are always at work. However, they Have Been superseded by the Law of Grace

Salvation is spoken of as a finished transaction, as seen by the fact that it is always being described with "past tense" verbs. (Also see Jn 1:12, Eph. 1:13)

When a person trusts Christ their salvation is final and complete. Salvation is not a process, it is an event. That is why Christ described salvation as a birth because it is an event. You can't be UNBORN!
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You have read me completely wrong. I probably did not make myself clear in the way that I stated it. The ones that Christ died for on the cross are, without a doubt, saved eternally, and will spend eternity in heaven.

My attention to three of your signature verses was to call attention to the fact that "salvation" in those verses have reference to deliverances (salvations) we receive, here in this world, by our actions, after we have already been saved (delivered) eternally. Salvation, according to Greek means "a deliverance". If we fail to understand the difference in our eternal deliverance and the deliverances we receive, here in time, by our good works, and interpret all salvation scriptures as eternal, the scriptures would "seem" to indicate eternal salvation is by the good works of nan.

I sometimes have trouble conveying my thoughts with the proper phrases. I hope you can understand what I am trying to get across to you.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#62
Jan 12, 2019
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#62
Moses_Young said:
Genesis 17 at least has to be conditional. The people either agreed to cut the excess skin off their males, or risked the entire male being "cut off". When Zipporah saved Moses life by circumcision, this is surely an example that this covenant was conditional.

When Joshua circumcised the whole nation of Israel so that there was a hill made of the tips, I doubt he would have been able to convince all the men to submit if there was an option to opt out of the painful bit, but still enjoy the priveleges (i.e. an unconditional covenant).
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yes, by the time it reached the law of Moses, it was definitely a conditional covenant
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#63
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#63
Guojing said:
So from the reformed belief, they consider that God already went ahead of time and knew that Abraham would believe and do what will be required.

Then God went back to the original time and called Abraham to do what was required. Thus Abraham was "elected" in that sense. While for his nephew Lot, God similarly already knew that he will not do what will be required.

Did I interpret your belief correctly?
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By God's foreknowledge he saw that no one would seek him, Psalms 53:2-3, therefore he choose an elect People, including Abraham, before the foundation of the world, Eph 1, and regenerated them sometime after their natural birth into this world, Eph 2.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#64
Jan 12, 2019
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#64
ForestGreenCook said:
By God's foreknowledge he saw that no one would seek him, Psalms 53:2-3, therefore he choose an elect People, including Abraham, before the foundation of the world, Eph 1, and regenerated them sometime after their natural birth into this world, Eph 2.
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Yep, it appears that you are using the omniscient argument.
 
Bingo

Bingo

Well-known member
#65
Feb 9, 2019
9,482
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#65
HOLY SPIRIT DOVE - Copy.jpg Friendly.png "Know this, and know it well."
 
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