Who is the ones that is taken ? And who is the ones that are left ?
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Do you not believe anything outside of the Gospels was "what Jesus said"? Because, recall what He'd said just before going to the Cross, in His words of in John 16,
12 I have yet many things to say to you, but you are not able to bear them now. 13 But when He the, Spirit of truth, shall come, He will guide you into all the truth. For He will not speak from Himself, but whatever He may hear, He will speak. And He will declare to you the things coming. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take from that which is Mine and will disclose it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Because of this, I said that He will take from that which is Mine and will disclose it to you.
So, in view of that ^ , what do you make of the following? :
Revelation 1:6 -
"and He has made us a kingdom, priests to His God and Father--to Him be the glory and the dominion to the ages of the ages. Amen."
Revelation 5:9 -
"And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation [this verse has "us" per the manuscript evidence I provided in an earlier post; the following verse tells "where" and mentions again the word "priests"--this being spoken by others (but regarding the "elders") in an antiphonal singing]; they have "stephanon/crowns" which Paul stated he would receive a crown "IN THAT DAY" (the item that parallels "the Day of Christ [VERTICAL, so to speak]), not meaning, "upon his death" point in time, as some suggest
and they are sitting on "THRONES" which indicates something specific... [keep in mind also the passage stating "know ye not that we shall JUDGE ANGELS"]
Then note that Rev5:8 had JUST SAID -
"And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints."
Where did these get those "crowns," and why are they sitting on "THRONES," and why are they saying "hath redeemed US," and what does the wording in 5:4 indicate where it says "WAS FOUND" (like, a "searching judgment" has already taken place... This is the SAME expression used in the event of Paul's "trials/arrest" and standing before their [human] Bema in the latter parts of Acts). Why are these humans shown IN HEAVEN *before* Jesus "STANDS to JUDGE" [Isa3:13, etc] which "judgments" will thereafter unfold upon the earth... Explain this.
12 I have yet many things to say to you, but you are not able to bear them now. 13 But when He the, Spirit of truth, shall come, He will guide you into all the truth. For He will not speak from Himself, but whatever He may hear, He will speak. And He will declare to you the things coming. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take from that which is Mine and will disclose it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Because of this, I said that He will take from that which is Mine and will disclose it to you.
So, in view of that ^ , what do you make of the following? :
Revelation 1:6 -
"and He has made us a kingdom, priests to His God and Father--to Him be the glory and the dominion to the ages of the ages. Amen."
Revelation 5:9 -
"And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation [this verse has "us" per the manuscript evidence I provided in an earlier post; the following verse tells "where" and mentions again the word "priests"--this being spoken by others (but regarding the "elders") in an antiphonal singing]; they have "stephanon/crowns" which Paul stated he would receive a crown "IN THAT DAY" (the item that parallels "the Day of Christ [VERTICAL, so to speak]), not meaning, "upon his death" point in time, as some suggest
and they are sitting on "THRONES" which indicates something specific... [keep in mind also the passage stating "know ye not that we shall JUDGE ANGELS"]Then note that Rev5:8 had JUST SAID -
"And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints."
Where did these get those "crowns," and why are they sitting on "THRONES," and why are they saying "hath redeemed US," and what does the wording in 5:4 indicate where it says "WAS FOUND" (like, a "searching judgment" has already taken place... This is the SAME expression used in the event of Paul's "trials/arrest" and standing before their [human] Bema in the latter parts of Acts). Why are these humans shown IN HEAVEN *before* Jesus "STANDS to JUDGE" [Isa3:13, etc] which "judgments" will thereafter unfold upon the earth... Explain this.
Of course that's what He is referring to (and what *I* meant).
I'm always pointing out the connection between that (what Jesus said there in John 16:12-16) and that of 1 Corinthians 2:9-10,12b,16,16b and Colossians 1:25's wording of [Paul saying, of his assigned task] "to complete the word of God".
So, *I* am speaking SPECIFICALLY about "God's Word" (THE BIBLE); please do not assume that I mean (by pointing out Jesus' words in Jn16) that I am referring to such things as "Margaret McDonald's [supposed] VISIONS" or the like. I am talking about GOD's WORD (what we find revealed IN SCRIPTURE).
I'm always pointing out the connection between that (what Jesus said there in John 16:12-16) and that of 1 Corinthians 2:9-10,12b,16,16b and Colossians 1:25's wording of [Paul saying, of his assigned task] "to complete the word of God".
So, *I* am speaking SPECIFICALLY about "God's Word" (THE BIBLE); please do not assume that I mean (by pointing out Jesus' words in Jn16) that I am referring to such things as "Margaret McDonald's [supposed] VISIONS" or the like.
I am talking about GOD's WORD (what we find revealed IN SCRIPTURE). 
Are you assuming that Jesus is going to stand around on the clouds ('IN THE AIR') for the entire 7 years, or what? (Recall, in the initial moments of the trib years, there are NO believers existing on the earth [the entire "Church which is His body" having been raptured out/experienced 'THE Departure']... but this changes over time throughout that time period, as ppl will come to faith therein...)
And, I think it is a mistake to suggest (as many do) that the following phrase means that we can only look back in the Gospels (in Jesus' words during His earthly ministry ONLY) to find what is being referred to in the following phrase (based on my last post and what I explained there): "For this we declare to you in the word of the Lord, that [...]" (1Th4:15).
And, I think it is a mistake to suggest (as many do) that the following phrase means that we can only look back in the Gospels (in Jesus' words during His earthly ministry ONLY) to find what is being referred to in the following phrase (based on my last post and what I explained there): "For this we declare to you in the word of the Lord, that [...]" (1Th4:15).
Yes even the often quoted scripture they use to point to the rapture includes the timing of the last trumpet sounding..
1 Corinthians 15: KJV
50 "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. {51} Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, {52} In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."
The last trumpet sounding is revealed once again in the Book of Revelation ( very important that book )
Revelation 10: KJV
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."
Interesting how both Paul a prophet of God reveals a Mystery about what will happen at the last trumpet and we then read about the 7th and last trumpet blast in the book of Revelation talking about a mystery being revealed..
And then we go to the account from Jesus of the day of His return::
Matthew 24: KJV
29 "¶ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: {30} And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. {31} And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."
But they claim we have no scriptures supporting a post tribulation rapture.
1 Corinthians 15: KJV
50 "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. {51} Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, {52} In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."
The last trumpet sounding is revealed once again in the Book of Revelation ( very important that book )
Revelation 10: KJV
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."
Interesting how both Paul a prophet of God reveals a Mystery about what will happen at the last trumpet and we then read about the 7th and last trumpet blast in the book of Revelation talking about a mystery being revealed..
And then we go to the account from Jesus of the day of His return::
Matthew 24: KJV
29 "¶ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: {30} And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. {31} And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."
But they claim we have no scriptures supporting a post tribulation rapture.
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^ In Numbers 10:1-10, there were distinct sounds for the distinct purposes of the "two [silver] trumpets" mentioned in that passage.
"4 And if they blow but with one trumpet, then the princes, which are heads of the thousands of Israel, shall gather [themselves-not in the text] unto thee [/unto Moses]."
"4 And if they blow but with one trumpet, then the princes, which are heads of the thousands of Israel, shall gather [themselves-not in the text] unto thee [/unto Moses]."
