Was Abraham's covenant with God conditional or unconditional?

[Guojing]

The Abrahamic Covenant was unconditional. We see this in Genesis 15. God did not say "if" "then".

17 And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces. 18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

Abraham did absolutely nothing to deserve God's grace and mercy, nor His covenant. In fact he stumbled a few times. But because Abraham believed God it was imputed to him as righteousness.

yes as I stated, all of us are more or less clear that genesis 15 was unconditional.

The problem is when you encounter genesis 12, 22 and especially 17. Are they conditional covenants and why?

 

[oyster67]

Promises are unconditional for the Body. Just make sure you are found therein when the end comes.

 

[bud62]

How long dose it take for a new post to be put on the site??????? if you all know ??? GOD bless as HE sees fif

 

[Dave-L]

How long dose it take for a new post to be put on the site??????? if you all know ??? GOD bless as HE sees fif

Hours sometimes. Once it was several minutes.

 

[bud62]

Hours sometimes. Once it was several minutes.

THANKS AND GOD bless as HE sees fit

 

[bud62]

Abraham is the first man to receive the Gospel. He believed God and obeyed when God told him to do something. To leave his country and king, to believe he would dhave a child of his own blood, and to offer up Isaac believe Isaac would yet father his future line and be the forefather of nations.

All the above was reckoned to Abraham as righteousness, not what he did, but that he believed God. So he was saved by his faith, not by his works yet God gave him works and he obeyed.

All children of Abraham will do the same, amen.

This was because He had the obedience , Which work with his FAITH, TO OBEY GOD

 

[Guojing]

This was because He had the obedience , Which work with his FAITH, TO OBEY GOD

But you agreed he lied to 2 Pharaohs, and if you read his motivation for the lie in Genesis 12, it was because he was cowardly too

12 Therefore it shall come to pass, when the Egyptians shall see thee, that they shall say, This is his wife: and they will kill me, but they will save thee alive.

13 Say, I pray thee, thou art my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake; and my soul shall live because of thee.

So why do you think God blessed him because of his obedience to commandments?

 

[Dave-L]

Another way to look at it, if the promise God made to Abraham was conditional, we should worship him for saving the world along with Christ. But it is clear the promise extended to the unbelievers became based on law which they forfeited continually.

 

[bud62]

But you agreed he lied to 2 Pharaohs, and if you read his motivation for the lie in Genesis 12, it was because he was cowardly too

12 Therefore it shall come to pass, when the Egyptians shall see thee, that they shall say, This is his wife: and they will kill me, but they will save thee alive.

13 Say, I pray thee, thou art my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake; and my soul shall live because of thee.

So why do you think God blessed him because of his obedience to commandments?

I said that SHE was his haft sister, And was. I said that he deceived him

 

[Guojing]

I said that SHE was his haft sister, And was. I said that he deceived him

So the point remains, how do you conclude he was blessed because he obeyed the commandments, whatever they are?

 

[Guojing]

Another way to look at it, if the promise God made to Abraham was conditional, we should worship him for saving the world along with Christ. But it is clear the promise extended to the unbelievers became based on law which they forfeited continually.

How do you view Genesis 17?

 

[Dave-L]

How do you view Genesis 17?

Through Paul's eyes. Jesus is Abraham's Seed, not the children of his flesh. And to these the promise is forever. But the children of the flesh forfeited the promises made conditional to them, many times over. Paul says:

“For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.” 2 Corinthians 1:20 (KJV 1900)

 

[JaumeJ]

That like saying you will be saved with out works, Satan has more faith then us , And it not GOING to save HIM, You can have as MUCH faith as Satan And still Go right in the LAKE OF FIRE, Faith & obedience To be save, Faith without works is dead. So it takes Faith & obedience, But the obedience comes after you have believed, we are not saved as long as we continue in sin.
IT take faith alone to save us, But it takes the Obedience to quit sinning, AND we are not going to go to heaven as long as we have not repented of our sins, for as long as we continue in sin, and know it, is called rebellion, The BIBLE says that rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, 1 Samuel 15:23,
2 Peter 2:24 Having eyes full of adultery, And that can not cease From sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children. They are called cursed children, because they would not cease from sin.
James 2:21, was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar ?

Read again please. If we have faith, we will obey God. This is not our works it amounts to being God's work using each willing believer as a vessel.

 

[JaumeJ]

There is no faith without works and works come from God....of course we must obey God, I have consisstently warned those who are grace only sit on your duff believers...

I haave also indicated to any pharisiticals that works of God are oft time undetected by the self-rightous.

 

[bud62]

Read again please. If we have faith, we will obey God. This is not our works it amounts to being God's work using each willing believer as a vessel.

I think you need study The things I put that the BIBLE Says, But it is even hard for us to change, after we have receive something that is wrong, We seem to just read over the parts that are in the BIBLE that shows us that we are WRONG. Just like it ant even there. GOD bless as HE sees fit

 

[bud62]

Read again please. If we have faith, we will obey God. This is not our works it amounts to being God's work using each willing believer as a vessel.

IT is not the LAW or THE works, That cleans us , It is the faith in his BLOOD, But once HE cleans us we HAFT to KEEP HIS LAWS, TO stay clean. WE can not be like the dog & the sow in 2 peter 2:22. If you read this, you will see that they will be lost.
Tells you that they have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray. These are telling people also THEY WILL BE ALL RIGHT living in corruption:
It also says that they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption. This means that they are still in sin.

 

[JaumeJ]

IT is not the LAW or THE works, That cleans us , It is the faith in his BLOOD, But once HE cleans us we HAFT to KEEP HIS LAWS, TO stay clean. WE can not be like the dog & the sow in 2 peter 2:22. If you read this, you will see that they will be lost.
Tells you that they have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray. These are telling people also THEY WILL BE ALL RIGHT living in corruption:
It also says that they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption. This means that they are still in sin.

You seem to b e raining on saturated ground. This conversation is not leading anywhere except showing only what a few know for themselves. All in the Holy Spirit will be just fine and blessed always.

 

[bud62]

You seem to b e raining on saturated ground. This conversation is not leading anywhere except showing only what a few know for themselves. All in the Holy Spirit will be just fine and blessed always.

You are saying about the same thing that they where in 2 Peter 2:15-22,They were saying they would be all right to, But it tells that they won't be

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I have been pondering about this recently and would like to seek views from everyone here.

Whether Abraham's covenant with God was conditional or unconditional can be tricky to conclude without bias from your favorite church doctrine.

Genesis 12: Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Genesis 12 seems to indicate a conditional covenant. By grace Abraham was chosen by God to channel his blessings but by faith, Abraham have to move to a new land that God called him to, this was confirmed by the account in Hebrews 11:8.

Genesis 15 is the unconditional covenant that everyone believes.

Genesis 15
After these things the word of the Lord came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.

2 And Abram said, Lord God, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?

3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.

4 And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.

5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.

6 And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

Genesis 17 clearly indicates a conditional covenant. Abraham and his descendants must circumcise themselves

And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.

3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,

4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.

10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

24 And Abraham was ninety years old and nine, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.

25 And Ishmael his son was thirteen years old, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.

26 In the selfsame day was Abraham circumcised, and Ishmael his son.

27 And all the men of his house, born in the house, and bought with money of the stranger, were circumcised with him.

This was conditional too, Abraham must circumcise himself and everyone else (ouch to do that at his age v24), if he does that then the good news is contained in vs 6-8 will be for him and his descendants.

Genesis 22 seems to also indicate a conditional covenant, the favorite one used by James chapter 2

16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the Lord, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:

17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;

18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

James used this to argue that, like Abraham, a man is justified by his works.

Given all this scriptural account, without any church doctrine bias as I have stated, it is easier to conclude that the covenant God cut with Abraham was conditional or unconditional?

Abraham was one of the elect of God, and was justified eternally by Christ's death on the cross. Abraham was justified here on earth, by his works. All of God's elect people are justified in the same manner. The natural man, apart from the elect, are not justified eternally, or here in time. The elect person can only justify himself, here in time, after he has been regenerated. All of these actions by God are unconditional.

 

[crossnote]

Believe it or not , WE are all save by GRACE, by faith Noah built the ark, some By FAITH , And some through FAITH, IF GOD CHANGED then he could SAVE SOME different then others BUT GOD DOSE NOT CHANGE, And HE is NOT going to treat us no BETTER THEN THEM, GOD DOSE NOT look OVER sin ,SIN is just as wrong FOR us as it was for them.

God does not change but His Covenants differ. Here is an example...

Hebrews 8:6,8-10 NKJV
[6] But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises. [8] Because finding fault with them, He says: "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah- [9] not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the LORD. [10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.