Are you completely Born again????

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watcher2013 said:
I re listen..at 35:02...did it not say "its like our sins are washed away"...like peter commparing baptism that saves 8 souls by water
Baptism is a must...on the understanding that born of water is baptism...that where the video started...
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Yea but what he's suggesting it means is not what that verse is saying. He's taking it and bending it to fit his preconceived interpretation. I listened to it and find him to be wrong here. I understand what he's saying, I understand what the scripture is saying, and they are not saying the same thing. You can't convince me the scripture is saying it is the physical act of baptism that saves, #1 it does not say that, #2 you have got to understand that salvation has NOTHING AT ALL IN ANY WAY to do with the flesh. That alone completely refutes the fleshly act of baptism. Again I was saved by God without being baptized. What do you say to that?
 
Jimbone said:
Yea but what he's suggesting it means is not what that verse is saying. He's taking it and bending it to fit his preconceived interpretation. I listened to it and find him to be wrong here. I understand what he's saying, I understand what the scripture is saying, and they are not saying the same thing. You can't convince me the scripture is saying it is the physical act of baptism that saves, #1 it does not say that, #2 you have got to understand that salvation has NOTHING AT ALL IN ANY WAY to do with the flesh. That alone completely refutes the fleshly act of baptism. Again I was saved by God without being baptized. What do you say to that?
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I asked eternally grateful...
Why did the scriptures said Abraham believed?
How can we say then that we believed?
 
watcher2013 said:
I do know that...but Jesus was talking about a fully grown man...
Except a man be born of water and spirit...
The exception would not make any sense..since everyone is born from womb..wxcept from adam
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So are you saying that there is no way that Jesus could have meant that being born of water was our physical birth just because He was speaking to a grown man. That doesn't make sense at all, and Nicodemus understood it to be what we are saying because he asked how a man could craw back into the womb to be born again. I'm telling you man this doctrine you're selling here is not sound. look at how many holes can be punched in it within seconds, nothing you can do, nothing your body can do, nothing at all the flesh can offer has anything to do with salvation. We come with empty hands. Period.
 
watcher2013 said:
I asked eternally grateful...
Why did the scriptures said Abraham believed?
How can we say then that we believed?
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Is belief a physical act? I say belief is of the spirit, and I even believe it's only by His Spirit that we believe.
 
watcher2013 said:
I asked eternally grateful...
Why did the scriptures said Abraham believed?
How can we say then that we believed?
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Also you're skipping around my main point here. First off, you are saying you believe that we must be physically dunked into water to be saved, correct? If so then does this have to be done by a particular person, or authority?
 
Jimbone said:
Also you're skipping around my main point here. First off, you are saying you believe that we must be physically dunked into water to be saved, correct? If so then does this have to be done by a particular person, or authority?
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This is what i am trying to...baptism is the product of believing...
Like abraham when he offered isaac..then the scriptures said abraham believed...
Even Jesus said...
Mar 16:16 KJV He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Believed and baptize is inseparable in salvation...
Those who believe not abviously are not baptize...
Our belief in Christ that he saves us...like abraham obey God when he offered Isaac...we obey him in baptism..burief with him...
 
watcher2013 said:
This is what i am trying to...baptism is the product of believing...
Like abraham when he offered isaac..then the scriptures said abraham believed...
Even Jesus said...
Mar 16:16 KJV He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Believed and baptize is inseparable in salvation...
Those who believe not abviously are not baptize...
Our belief in Christ that he saves us...like abraham obey God when he offered Isaac...we obey him in baptism..burief with him...
Click to expand...
Like Abraham...
Baptism is our confimation that we believed...
 
Jimbone said:
So are you saying that there is no way that Jesus could have meant that being born of water was our physical birth just because He was speaking to a grown man. That doesn't make sense at all, and Nicodemus understood it to be what we are saying because he asked how a man could craw back into the womb to be born again. I'm telling you man this doctrine you're selling here is not sound. look at how many holes can be punched in it within seconds, nothing you can do, nothing your body can do, nothing at all the flesh can offer has anything to do with salvation. We come with empty hands. Period.
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Jesus could have only said...except a man is born of spirit... It Will make more sense...
But saying born of water is physical birth...

It is more how can i say this...(stupid) sorry cannot find what i am trying to say less harsh..
Everone is born/ from womb...
It makes no sense to say it as an exception..
 
watcher2013 said:
Jesus could have only said...except a man is born of spirit... It Will make more sense...
But saying born of water is physical birth...

It is more how can i say this...(stupid) sorry cannot find what i am trying to say less harsh..
Everone is born/ from womb...
It makes no sense to say it as an exception..
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No the emphasis is on the spirit, unless man is born of water AND spirit. You're right we are all born of the water through women, but unless you are born again, born of spirit then you cannot enter the kingdom. I mean you can say and think it means what your saying it does, but if what you're saying leads you to think that you HAVE to be baptized in water to be saved then you're just wrong. That's not true and not at all what is written. One last time, and please answer me. I am telling you that I was saved, I was 100% reborn of the Spirit into His kingdom, without a doubt, 100% brand new man overnight, in power, without being baptized in water first. Not only that years before I was baptized in water and was not saved. How is that possible in your theology?
 
Jimbone said:
No the emphasis is on the spirit, unless man is born of water AND spirit. You're right we are all born of the water through women, but unless you are born again, born of spirit then you cannot enter the kingdom. I mean you can say and think it means what your saying it does, but if what you're saying leads you to think that you HAVE to be baptized in water to be saved then you're just wrong. That's not true and not at all what is written. One last time, and please answer me. I am telling you that I was saved, I was 100% reborn of the Spirit into His kingdom, without a doubt, 100% brand new man overnight, in power, without being baptized in water first. Not only that years before I was baptized in water and was not saved. How is that possible in your theology?
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The emphasis is both water and spirit.
The house of cornelius, have you not viewed the video.
The house of cornelius believed and recieved the holy ghost...even before they were baptized..(same as your example)
People in samaria in acts 8. Believed and were baptised but recieved the holy ghost after a period of time.

All the examples in the video were baptized...

As Jesus said...Mar 16:16 KJV He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Mat 28:19 KJV Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

As in the video...the completion of being born again is when we recieved our spiritual body at resurrection..and inherit the kingdom of Christ.
And by the way.. we look forward to our salvation...fulfilment salvstion is when we received our spiritual body
 
Jimbone said:
Also you're skipping around my main point here. First off, you are saying you believe that we must be physically dunked into water to be saved, correct? If so then does this have to be done by a particular person, or authority?
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Repentance is nothing more than belief.
And belief is nothing more than baptism...
This is all on our part..when we heard the gospel...salvation is from God.

Who will baptize a person...a person sent by God to baptize...
Like paul was not sent to baptize and yet he baptized some...
A member of the Church..
 
watcher2013 said:
Let me go straight to the point.
Why did the scriptures said abraham believed?
How then can we say we believed?
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Abraham believed before he did anything, see also romans 4

god knows if we believed or not, he does not need proof. if he needsproof something is wrong, he is not as powerful as he says,
 
eternally-gratefull said:
Abraham believed before he did anything, see also romans 4

god knows if we believed or not, he does not need proof. if he needsproof something is wrong, he is not as powerful as he says,
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Jas 2:21-23 KJV 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
 
watcher2013 said:
Jas 2:21-23 KJV 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
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James did not contradict paul

james is talking about people who claimed to have faith but have no works9 he is telling them to test their own faith. Not telling us to be fruit inspectors

Romans 4
What then shall we say that Abraham our father[a] has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was [b]accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted [c]as grace but as debt.
David Celebrates the Same Truth
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”
 
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eternally-gratefull said:
James did not contradict paul

james is talking about people who claimed to have faith but have no works9 he is telling them to test their own faith. Not telling us to be fruit inspectors

Romans 4
What then shall we say that Abraham our father[a] has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was [b]accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted [c]as grace but as debt.
David Celebrates the Same Truth
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”
Click to expand...
I did not say james contradict paul...
Romans 4 did not show why it said in the scriptures that abraham believed...
I am just showing why the scriptures said how abraham believed...
We know that God talked to abraham...how come he would not believed...when you said God knows if we believe or not and does not need proof...
Gen 22:12 KJV And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
....
The same is like in baptism...
We believed that Jesus saves us...baptism is our confirmation of our belief
 
watcher2013 said:
I did not say james contradict paul...
Romans 4 did not show why it said in the scriptures that abraham believed...
I am just showing why the scriptures said how abraham believed...
We know that God talked to abraham...how come he would not believed...when you said God knows if we believe or not and does not need proof...
Gen 22:12 KJV And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
....
The same is like in baptism...
We believed that Jesus saves us...baptism is our confirmation of our belief
Click to expand...
Yes romans 4 did say why

it said if abraham was found by works he would have something to boast

it said if abraham had to work he received a wage

just as paul,said in Eph 2 not of works lest anyone boast

again, your context of James is off, he is talking to people who have a claimed faith only, not people who really had faith, that’s why he told them to search and find their works, to prove to themselves their faith was dead.

gods omniscient, he knows if your faith is real. He does not need proof.
 
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watcher2013 said:
what does it mean by Born of water?
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Because God is of the spirit and we are of the flesh it is very difficult for us to know what God is speaking of as God explains the spirit to us. For that communication, we must first be born again to open our spirit to things of the spirit. God uses physical things that we understand as symbols of the spiritual. Water is one of the symbols.

In order to understand the symbolism of water we must be open to the Lord in both old and new testament. In the place where God is, there is no old and new, there is eternity. God is the I Am. God uses water as we use it in the flesh: we use it to clean. It helps us understand what being spiritually clean means.
 
“Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.” Ezekiel 36:25–28 (KJV 1900)
 
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