Not By Works

[EleventhHour]

Look at the bold underline in your quote.

Those who believe in Him will not perish and will receive eternal life.
Those who no longer believe in Him will perish and not receive eternal life.

That's why the Bible tells us to hold fast the gospel by which we were saved.
Because you can't remain in the safety of a gospel that you no longer believe and trust in.

"let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father." - 1 John 2:25

You know Ralph I was just wondering did you reinvent yourself thinking perhaps this would add credence to your dogma of works?

Like maybe you were thinking ....

.. if I try a new more serious name they may fall for my works dogma and then I can begin my one man mission of fixing the church filled with greasy gracers"

 

[Rosemaryx]

Look at the bold underline in your quote.

Those who believe in Him will not perish and will receive eternal life.
Those who no longer believe in Him will perish and not receive eternal life.

That's why the Bible tells us to hold fast the gospel by which we were saved.
Because you can't remain in the safety of a gospel that you no longer believe and trust in.

"let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father." - 1 John 2:25

The Apostles later came to the understanding that Jesus was talking about the apostates like Judas who " claims to be in Christ , in the Vine , Jesus was not talking about those were called , but those who are suckers on the vine...
We as His children abide in Him , because we believe in saving faith , not superficial faith...

Many come to Christ with a joyful heart , wanting the promises of Him and not Jesus Himself , then the cares off the world pop their bubble and they no longer walk with Him , why ? because they were never IN Him...

 

[mailmandan]

Look at the bold underline in your quote.

Those who believe in Him will not perish and will receive eternal life.
Those who no longer believe in Him will perish and not receive eternal life.

That's why the Bible tells us to hold fast the gospel by which we were saved.
Because you can't remain in the safety of a gospel that you no longer believe and trust in.

Those who believe in Him will not perish and will receive eternal life.
Those who do not believe in Him will perish and not receive eternal life.

There. I fixed it for you and the Roman Catholic church.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. *Perfect Harmony*

*Notice that John DID NOT SAY no longer believes in Him. That is your extra added bias.

The Bible tells us to hold fast to the gospel because not everyone does hold fast and instead believes in vain - without cause or without effect, to no purpose. Those who profess to have believed, but no longer believe never truly believed in the first place (belief was never firmly rooted and established) or else they would have continued to believe. It's about God's preservation and not self preservation.

"let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father." - 1 John 2:25

Abiding in what we have heard from the beginning is the mark of genuine conversion. 1 John 2:19 is really a key verse, "They went out from us, they were not really of us. If they had been of us they would have...what?...would have remained with us." True Christians then are identified by abiding. And if someone doesn't, if they go out, reject, deny, they went out because they were not of us, if they had been of us they would have remained with us. Remaining, staying, abiding is the mark of a genuine believer. Some people turn "abiding in Christ" into some upper level spiritual experience that only super saints do, yet the Greek word for "abide" is "meno" which simply means to remain, tarry, not to depart, continue to be present.

Verse 24, "As for you, let that remain in you which you heard from the beginning...if what you heard from the beginning remains in you, you will also remain in the Son and the Father." We see confirmation and then down in verse 27 - But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.

*In 1 John 4:13, we read - By this we know that we abide in Him and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.

 

[EleventhHour]

v


Have you had a previous account on christianchat at any point in time?

(if so what was the screen name/ account name)

There will be no response because one cannot admit to being a person with a discredited doctrine.

One comes back and tries again ...seeking affirmation and a second attempt to persuade those unsteady in the faith.

 

[KJV1611]

Not before God.

God doesn't need proof. He knows.

I meant that (before God) in the way that works salvationists see that verse - justified, saved, made righteous. I'm saying that the verse does not say that Abraham's spirit was made right or righteous, I'm saying that Abraham's faith was justified as being true faith.

 

[Rosemaryx]

v


Have you had a previous account on christianchat at any point in time?

(if so what was the screen name/ account name)

As @dcontroversal says
" Good luck with that one "
Everyone who has asked him he has ignored...

Now if someone kept asking me if my name was Nora , I would have to tell them " No , it is not " , what gives a reason for a person to ignore this question ? , ...
...xox...

 

[EleventhHour]

I'll address later, but brethren many times simply means kinsmen. Look it up.

I do not buy this for a second, when I read James I feel the spiritual impact on me and the Spirit reveal himself through those written words.

By your belief (wrong one) would mean it should not be in the Bible then?

 

[EleventhHour]

I meant that (before God) in the way that works salvationists see that verse - justified, saved, made righteous. I'm saying that the verse does not say that Abraham's spirit was made right or righteous, I'm saying that Abraham's faith was justified as being true faith.

This does not fit in accordance to what Paul writes.

Romans 4
1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter?
2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about--but not before God.
3 What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."


Righteousness being right with God. When one is right with God on is justified.

 

[John146]

Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

That verse DOES NOT SAY that Abraham was justified (made right) before God, that's what works salvation want it to say. It only says that SOMETHING about him was justified by his works and that something is given in the next verse.

Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

Abraham's FAITH was justified as being REAL through his works. Only true faith could bring forth the WORK of offering up your one and only son.

Notice it's an individual's faith, Abraham's faith. After the cross, the believer is justified by the faith of Jesus Christ. Huge difference. Christ's faith was not available to Abraham. In the OT, a man lived by his own faith. We live by the faith of Jesus Christ. His faith never waivers. His faith never fails.

 

[John146]

I actually understand James pretty well because I hate any doctrine that tries to adds works to salvation...so I have spent time on it.

No sly reasoning ...just good reasoning based on audience relevance and reading it from the right lens.

Answer the question ...are you stating the letter is written to non believers?

I'm stating that James is written to the entire nation of Israel. As doctrine, the book of James will apply to the Jews living in the tribulation after the rapture mentioned by Paul. Paul's letters address the body of Christ. Then Hebrews and James addresses the Jews as God turns His attention back to that nation and continues His program with that nation.

 

[EleventhHour]

I'm stating that James is written to the entire nation of Israel. As doctrine, the book of James will apply to the Jews living in the tribulation after the rapture mentioned by Paul. Paul's letters address the body of Christ. Then Hebrews and James addresses the Jews as God turns His attention back to that nation and continues His program with that nation.

Based on what?

 

[John146]

I do not buy this for a second, when I read James I feel the spiritual impact on me and the Spirit reveal himself through those written words.

By your belief (wrong one) would mean it should not be in the Bible then?

Why not in the bible? God's people Israel is going to need instruction in the tribulation.

Yes, there are applicable passages that we can glean from, but the overall doctrine is to the twelve tribes scattered abroad, the whole nation of Israel.

 

[John146]

Based on what?

Based upon his opening address, to the twelve tribes scattered abroad. The term twelve tribes never means Christians. That contradicts the rest of Scripture. The term twelve tribes always means the nation of Israel as a whole, all descendants from the twelve tribes, and never Christian Jews. Ever.

 

[EleventhHour]

Notice it's an individual's faith, Abraham's faith. After the cross, the believer is justified by the faith of Jesus Christ. Huge difference. Christ's faith was not available to Abraham. In the OT, a man lived by his own faith. We live by the faith of Jesus Christ. His faith never waivers. His faith never fails.

Faith is faith

 

[Rosemaryx]

I'm stating that James is written to the entire nation of Israel. As doctrine, the book of James will apply to the Jews living in the tribulation after the rapture mentioned by Paul. Paul's letters address the body of Christ. Then Hebrews and James addresses the Jews as God turns His attention back to that nation and continues His program with that nation.

James is writing to the Jewish believers who were scattered abroad , those who believed in Jesus , and his letter is also shown to us as how we should live our lives in Christ...

Many Jewish believers from all the tribes were scattered...

 

[EleventhHour]

Why not in the bible? God's people Israel is going to need instruction in the tribulation.

Yes, there are applicable passages that we can glean from, but the overall doctrine is to the twelve tribes scattered abroad, the whole nation of Israel.

Are you serious??

How about the entire Bible... that should be plenty of instruction.

I see nothing in that letter that would signify it is for a certain eschatological time period.

Can you give me a verse?

 

[EleventhHour]

James is writing to the Jewish believers who were scattered abroad , those who believed in Jesus , and his letter is also shown to us as how we should live our lives in Christ...

Many Jewish believers from all the tribes were scattered...

Seems straightforward to me, unless one wants to mangle it to fit some extreme dispensationalist view.

 

[EleventhHour]

@John146 be forewarned I am going to have to give you lots of disagrees pretty soon if you keep this going.

 

[KJV1611]

This does not fit in accordance to what Paul writes.

Romans 4
1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter?
2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about--but not before God.
3 What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."


Righteousness being right with God. When one is right with God on is justified.

It lines up perfectly with Romans 4, Abraham was saved grace through faith and not works. In James 2, Abraham's faith was justified as being true saving faith when he offered up Isaac. "Fake faith" would not allow Abraham to offer up his son.

 

[EleventhHour]

Based upon his opening address, to the twelve tribes scattered abroad. The term twelve tribes never means Christians. That contradicts the rest of Scripture. The term twelve tribes always means the nation of Israel as a whole, all descendants from the twelve tribes, and never Christian Jews. Ever.

Were there not Jews that converted?
Are they still not ethnically Jew but spiritually in Christ?

If James wants to separate out a certain audience of believers ..being Jews then of course he is going to use the term "twelve tribes" to signify a certain group of believers who needed specialized instruction because of their background and knowledge.

Again very simple to understand.. no hoop jumping required!!