Not By Works

[Judges1318]

Those who go out from us were never of us and if they were of us then they would have continued. (1 John 2:19)

Except the Galatians, of course. They did not continue in Christ.

Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?
4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
10You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! 11I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you. - Galatians 3:2-3, 5:4, 4:10-11

They believed, but left their faith in Christ and went back to law keeping for justification.
But somehow 1 John 2:19 still means the person who departs was never saved to begin with.

 

[lightbearer]

Yeah you got that right....nice to see you tagging yourself and finally admitting to your error.....

For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. Now the just shall live by faith: but if he ( the just one) draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto DESTRUCTION; but of them that believe into the saving of the soul.
(Heb 10:36-39 KJV)

No promise received if he ( the just one) draws backs to destruction. GOD shall have no pleasure in him. ALL he will have is a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversary. He that sins willfully doing despite unto the Spirit of grace where with HE WAS SANCTIFIED.

Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. For if WE (the Church) ARE SINNING WILLFULLY after that we have received the knowledge of the truth,THERE REMAINS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS , But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

How can one do despite unto the Spirit unless they have the Spirit.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Partakers of the Holy Ghost, enlightened, tasted the word of God. Sanctified, made Holy, through the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience (our inner being, the old man) from dead works (sin, acts that cause death) to serve the living God.
For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sin But ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.


(1John 3:5,7,8; Heb 10:4; 6:4-6; 9:13-14;10:23-29;

 

[Judges1318]

NOSAS makes Jesus our "initial" Savior, then WE do the rest and keep ourselves saved through self preservation.

No, you stay saved by continuing in the very same believing by which you were initially saved. It's not two different 'kinds' of believing.

I see no assurance of salvation in that.

The security of salvation comes from believing in Christ.
The assurance of salvation comes from seeing the change in your works/fruit.

The parable of the soils is not comparing mature believers who have security and assurance of salvation with immature believers who have no security and assurance of salvation.

Jesus said the seed in soil #3 does not mature.
He said the seed in soil #4 perseveres in fruitfulness.
How is that not comparing the maturity of the word in the soils, and not comparing the assurance each soil has in their salvation?

 

[dcontroversal]

For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. Now the just shall live by faith: but if he ( the just one) draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto DESTRUCTION; but of them that believe into the saving of the soul.
(Heb 10:36-39 KJV)

No promise received if he ( the just one) draws backs to destruction. GOD shall have no pleasure in him. ALL he will have is a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversary. He that sins willfully doing despite unto the Spirit of grace where with HE WAS SANCTIFIED.

Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. For if WE (the Church) ARE SINNING WILLFULLY after that we have received the knowledge of the truth,THERE REMAINS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS , But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

How can one do despite unto the Spirit unless they have the Spirit.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Partakers of the Holy Ghost, enlightened, tasted the word of God. Sanctified, made Holy, through the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience (our inner being, the old man) from dead works (sin, acts that cause death) to serve the living God.
For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sin But ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.


(1John 3:5,7,8; Heb 10:4; 6:4-6; 9:13-14;10:23-29;

BLAH BLAH BLAH.......sorry....your sinless perfectionist, I keep myself saved crap and a losable salvation are not found in scriptures.....was just looking at your old posts....and you are nothing more than a self saving, works earning salvation loser.....

 

[lightbearer]

You can quote all day long and it does not change what you have written and the stipulations you have placed upon remaining saved in the past unless you have renounced your past false beliefs....

For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof (this perfection in which we speak) the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them. The Spirit also confirms this when He saith, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the word) down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the word) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (CHRIST) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.

For Christ (through which the Word is in the Heart and Mouth, true Faith) is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
(Heb 10:14-16; Rom 10:6-8,4)

 

[dcontroversal]

No, you stay saved by continuing in the very same believing by which you were initially saved. It's not two different 'kinds' of believing.


The security of salvation comes from believing in Christ.
The assurance of salvation comes from seeing the change in your works/fruit.


Jesus said the seed in soil #3 does not mature.
He said the seed in soil #4 perseveres in fruitfulness.
How is that not comparing the maturity of the soils, and not comparing the assurance each soil has in their salvation?

False again Ralph....Jesus keeps us saved....

 

[dcontroversal]

For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof (this perfection in which we speak) the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them. The Spirit also confirms this when He saith, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the word) down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the word) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (CHRIST) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.

For Christ (through which the Word is in the Heart and Mouth, true Faith) is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
(Heb 10:14-16; Rom 10:6-8,4)

You obviously don't understand perfected forever........

 

[EleventhHour]

(1John 3:5,7,8; Heb 10:4; 6:4-6; 9:13-14;10:23-29;

I really like how you never repeat yourself.

It is is truly a gift how you are able to give new and novel insight in the word of God using a variety of scripture verses.

 

[lightbearer]

BLAH BLAH BLAH.......sorry....your sinless perfectionist, I keep myself saved crap and a losable salvation are not found in scriptures.....was just looking at your old posts....and you are nothing more than a self saving, works earning salvation loser.....

It is God that workds in us both to will and do His Good pleasure, Not I but Christ.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that (FAITH is) not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
(Eph 2:8-10 KJV)

 

[lightbearer]

You obviously don't understand perfected forever........

For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. WHEREOF (this perfection in which we speak) the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them.

 

[EleventhHour]

You obviously don't understand perfected forever........

I am pretty sure his Bible is actually just a one page leaflet.

 

[dcontroversal]

I am pretty sure his Bible is actually just a one page leaflet.

AMEN.....just another salvation loser and self maintainer like Ralph.....he also has no understanding of Greek verb tense

For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

 

[lightbearer]

AMEN.....just another salvation loser and self maintainer like Ralph.....he also has no understanding of Greek verb tense

For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. WHEREOF (this perfection in which we speak) the Holy Ghost ALSO is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them.

 

[Judges1318]

Absolutely not!

Although I'm not Calvinist, I'm with them on this part: You must continue to believe to the very end to be saved in the very end.

Do you take that to mean striving to continue believing?

I would think if someone believes something strongly they wouldn't have to strive to believe but rather it would be difficult to stop believing. I'm not sure if you are speaking of striving to keep believing or not.

Key word in what you said--strongly.
Not everybody has strong faith.

Someone with strong faith is not going to have to struggle with going back to unbelief as much as someone with weak faith. We see that in the Parable of the Sower. Those in whom the word of God is not deeply rooted and watered are more vulnerable to falling away. They have weak faith:

"13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away." - Luke 8:13

But in mature, 4th kind of soil, the word of God is firmly planted and watered and retained by the soil and persevering in fruitfulness. That is the believer who has strong faith:

15 But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop." - Luke 8:15

 

[dcontroversal]

For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. WHEREOF (this perfection in which we speak) the Holy Ghost ALSO is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them.

So what, your point is MOOT.........sanctified and perfected forever pal.....not temporarily like you and your salvation losing pals peddle

 

[Judges1318]

Do you take that to mean striving to continue believing?

Do you consider the Bible's admonition to 'hold fast' striving to continue believing?

 

[lightbearer]

So what, your point is MOOT.........sanctified and perfected forever pal.....not temporarily like you and your salvation losing pals peddle

God's Perfection, His Law in the heart and mind is moot? For by one offering he hath perfected for ever (not sanctified forever) them that are sanctified. WHEREOF (this perfection in which we speak) the Holy Ghost ALSO is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them.


NOT SANCTIFIED forever, Sanctification can be lost.
For if we (the church, including the writer) are sinning willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries (those who are sinning willfully). He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? ( GOD"S Law in the hearts and minds)
(Heb 10:26-29)

WAS SANCTIFIED, Sanctification LOST because they done despite unto the Spirit of grace which they were given.
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
(Heb 6:4-6 KJV)

 

[EleventhHour]

Key word in what you said--strongly.
Not everybody has strong faith.

Someone with strong faith is not going to have to struggle with going back to unbelief as much as someone with weak faith. We see that in the Parable of the Sower. Those in whom the word of God is not deeply rooted and watered are more vulnerable to falling away. They have weak faith:

"13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away." - Luke 8:13

But in mature, 4th kind of soil, the word of God is firmly planted and watered and retained by the soil and persevering in fruitfulness. That is the believer who has strong faith:

15 But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop." - Luke 8:15

So now a person has to have a certain level of intensity of faith "strong faith" for salvation.

Anything else you want to load on?

 

[Judges1318]

Mark 9:24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

This says nothing about "continuing to believe in order to keep salvation."

This does:

"1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain (that is, if Christ is not really risen from the dead-see vs. 14 & 17)." - 1 Corinthians 15:1-2

"see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is what he promised us—eternal life." - 1 John 2:24-25

God knew/knows we have times of doubt.

Doubt, and no longer believing in Christ are two very different things.

 

[Judges1318]

It’s not faith in Christ that justifies, but the faith of Christ. Huge difference. The faith of Christ is a doctrine left out of the new versions.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Our faith may fail, but Christ’s faith never fails.

Faith is 'the evidence of things unseen' (Hebrews 11:1).
That comes from God.

Believing is us putting our trust in that which God has shown us to be true that we can't see.
That comes from us.

It is through God's gift of faith that we believe/trust in the work of Christ and are saved.