Mary Mother of Jesus: Sinless?

[Jackson123]

I agree...
That is why I said in my other post that none of that rubbed off on me , and I give all the glory to God for that...

I am glad to hear that sister, now you are free from the pagan deception, may the Lord Jesus always protect you from all deception

 

[Lanolin]

I wouldnt say Mary was 'sinless' just that she was obedient. If she had any sins they would have been forgiven though, I mean there is an incident when Mary did try to push Jesus to helping out when he wasnt ready. Another time people asked Jesus why wasnt he going to his mum who was standing there with his brothers and sisters.

Mary maybe didnt understand that Jesus didnt just love his own family, he reached out to everyone.
Oh and the famous incident where Mary and Joseph lost Jesus in Jerusalem. They werent really keeping an eye on him. Or they didnt. communicate where he was. Famously Jesus said didnt they know that he would be in his Fathers house (not his mothers!)

 

[Whispered]

Yes I do , and singing , and talking to God...
When I read the Scriptures , I stop and ponder them , then I pray to God and agree in what He is showing me , and agree that He is who He says He is...
We can worship God in many ways...

True. However, when the Catholic church says they do not worship Mary, only God, is it Christian of us to call them a liar?
When , were they to lie about such a thing, they may fool us but they would not fool God. And God would not bless them for their idolatry.

 

[Whispered]

I wouldnt say Mary was 'sinless' just that she was obedient. If she had any sins they would have been forgiven though, I mean there is an incident when Mary did try to push Jesus to helping out when he wasnt ready. Another time people asked Jesus why wasnt he going to his mum who was standing there with his brothers and sisters.

Mary maybe didnt understand that Jesus didnt just love his own family, he reached out to everyone.
Oh and the famous incident where Mary and Joseph lost Jesus in Jerusalem. They werent really keeping an eye on him. Or they didnt. communicate where he was. Famously Jesus said didnt they know that he would be in his Fathers house (not his mothers!)

Mary was Saved by God.
That's the point here I think. And that she was not, and prior to God's covering her so as to bring His Holy Spirit into her womb, is what is the counter argument.
One additional argument from those that seem to believe that is that Jesus was born with a sin nature.

 

[Jackson123]

I wouldnt say Mary was 'sinless' just that she was obedient. If she had any sins they would have been forgiven though, I mean there is an incident when Mary did try to push Jesus to helping out when he wasnt ready. Another time people asked Jesus why wasnt he going to his mum who was standing there with his brothers and sisters.

Mary maybe didnt understand that Jesus didnt just love his own family, he reached out to everyone.
Oh and the famous incident where Mary and Joseph lost Jesus in Jerusalem. They werent really keeping an eye on him. Or they didnt. communicate where he was. Famously Jesus said didnt they know that he would be in his Fathers house (not his mothers!)

Than it apply to every christians they are forgiven because obey and accept Jesus as the only savior

Why we not worship each other? We are sinless like Mary don't we ?

 

[Whispered]

Hey Whispered.
I have two points . First is as you stated that Catholic tradition veneration of saints is not worship as they define it . That is the point. They define it so that veneration paid to God is worship and to anyone else is not . Here from new advent Catholic encyclopedia is a snip of how they define it .
There are several degrees of this worship:

• if it is addressed directly to God,it is superior, absolute, supreme worship, or worship of adoration, or, according to the consecrated theological term, a worship of latria. This sovereign worship is due to God alone; addressed to a creature it would become idolatry .
• When worship is addressed only indirectly to God, that is, when its object is the veneration of martyrs of angels or of saints it is a subordinate worship dependent on the first, and relative, in so far as it honours the creatures of God for their peculiar relations with Him; it is designated by theologians as the worship of dulia, a term denoting servitude, and implying, when used to signify our worship of distinguished servants of God, that their service to Him is their title to our veneration (cf. Chollet, loc. cit., col. 2407, and Bouquillon , Tractatus de virtute religionis, I, Burges , 1880, 22 sq.).
• As the Blessed Virgin has a separate and absolutely supereminent rank among the saints , the worship paid to her is called hyperdulia (for the meaning and history of these terms see Suicer, Thesaurus ecclesiasticus, 1728). You see they have set it up so that the same act done for God and then a saint are different depending on where it’s directed. Instead of settling a standard for what belongs to God and what can be done for a saint . It’s like someone eating a cake and then define what they ate as vegetables then say they have eaten something healthy. Blessings.

Bill

As you wish.

 

[Whispered]

I agree
but if you think your going to pursue it by following the law you will fail miserably


John
if we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves

I think John knew the disciples better than you did. I would listen to him and stop your petty stuff

forgive me for disagreeing with you when people do that it seems to put a target on their head

i Am finished. I Will Pray for you

What a travesty.
Please do not pray for me. Your demeanor and continual false accusations and fabrications that you attach then to others so as to actually attack your own words, tells me they will not be heard. I know why you waste your time here among us. The Bible tells me why I should make that request so that you do not waste your time making a disingenuous offer of prayer.

 

[Laish]

No, you didn't prove it. You blasphemed God so as to validate your belief and feelings that not only was Mary a sinner, but that she was not highly favored, in God's grace, so as to deliver the Messiah.
Your doctrine is that God was born of a sinner, full of sin and dead in her trespasses.

God help you.

Question. How is Mary able to be born born without sin ( a human being) and Jesus Christ God incarnate not able to do the same ? Rhetorical question next why is Mary capable of of this and not God?
Blessings
Bill

 

[Whispered]

Question. How is Mary able to be born born without sin ( a human being) and Jesus Christ God incarnate not able to do the same ? Rhetorical question next why is Mary capable of of this and not God?
Blessings
Bill

You're not following the discussion to this point at all. Mary was favored , in God's grace, when she was chosen to carry Messiah. If the Christian accepts that we are saved by faith and Salvation arrived due to God's grace, then we cannot say Mary was not saved by God's grace prior to carrying Jesus in her womb. Because Jesus was God.
Some say, oh no, only the blood of Christ Saves! However, God was in Mary's womb, and since His Holy Spirit does not indwell the Sinner, her favoring by God would mean God graced her as the first woman, person, to be saved from her sins. And so that His Holy Spirit could cover her and indwell Her as Jesus. Holy Spirit made flesh.

As to your question about Jesus, I do not follow nor respect the blasphemy that false teachers and their Denominations teach as to Jesus being born with a sin nature and thus able to sin. Those teachers who teach that lie straight from the pit should have studied the Bible more so as to realize, come their judgment they shall answer to a stricter standard of representing Christ when they chose to teach about Him, and delivered that Satanic lie from their pulpit.

If Jesus was born with a sin nature, HE needed a Savior. He could not be sacrificed as the pure unblemished lamb that He was, as God's word tells us, for the sins of the world, when He Himself was possessed of a sin nature.

 

[JamOn]

You're not following the discussion to this point at all. Mary was favored , in God's grace, when she was chosen to carry Messiah. If the Christian accepts that we are saved by faith and Salvation arrived due to God's grace, then we cannot say Mary was not saved by God's grace prior to carrying Jesus in her womb. Because Jesus was God.
Some say, oh no, only the blood of Christ Saves! However, God was in Mary's womb, and since His Holy Spirit does not indwell the Sinner, her favoring by God would mean God graced her as the first woman, person, to be saved from her sins. And so that His Holy Spirit could cover her and indwell Her as Jesus. Holy Spirit made flesh.

As to your question about Jesus, I do not follow nor respect the blasphemy that false teachers and their Denominations teach as to Jesus being born with a sin nature and thus able to sin. Those teachers who teach that lie straight from the pit should have studied the Bible more so as to realize, come their judgment they shall answer to a stricter standard of representing Christ when they chose to teach about Him, and delivered that Satanic lie from their pulpit.

If Jesus was born with a sin nature, HE needed a Savior. He could not be sacrificed as the pure unblemished lamb that He was, as God's word tells us, for the sins of the world, when He Himself was possessed of a sin nature.

I don’t know about the sin nature thing, but what boy was these verses talking about?

Isaiah 7
13Then Isaiah said, “Hear now, O house of David! Is it not enough to try the patience of men? Will you try the patience of my God as well? 14Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and she will call Him Immanuel.f 15By the time He knows enough to reject evil and choose good, He will be eating curds and honey. 16For before the boy knows enough to reject evil and choose good, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste.

 

[Whispered]

I don’t know about the sin nature thing, but what boy was these verses talking about?

Isaiah 7
13Then Isaiah said, “Hear now, O house of David! Is it not enough to try the patience of men? Will you try the patience of my God as well? 14Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and she will call Him Immanuel.f 15By the time He knows enough to reject evil and choose good, He will be eating curds and honey. 16For before the boy knows enough to reject evil and choose good, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste.

In Jewish tradition that would be referring to His coming to the age of 13, when Jewish boys today celebrate that coming of age with a bar mitzvah. They've reached maturity and are considered adult and with the same rights.
Jesus would have then been considered the Son of the Law.

 

[JamOn]

The terrible twos

In Jewish tradition that would be referring to His coming to the age of 13, when Jewish boys today celebrate that coming of age with a bar mitzvah. They've reached maturity and are considered adult and with the same rights.
Jesus would have then been considered the Son of the Law.

And I call it the terrible twos

 

[Laish]

You're not following the discussion to this point at all. Mary was favored , in God's grace, when she was chosen to carry Messiah. If the Christian accepts that we are saved by faith and Salvation arrived due to God's grace, then we cannot say Mary was not saved by God's grace prior to carrying Jesus in her womb. Because Jesus was God.
Some say, oh no, only the blood of Christ Saves! However, God was in Mary's womb, and since His Holy Spirit does not indwell the Sinner, her favoring by God would mean God graced her as the first woman, person, to be saved from her sins. And so that His Holy Spirit could cover her and indwell Her as Jesus. Holy Spirit made flesh.

As to your question about Jesus, I do not follow nor respect the blasphemy that false teachers and their Denominations teach as to Jesus being born with a sin nature and thus able to sin. Those teachers who teach that lie straight from the pit should have studied the Bible more so as to realize, come their judgment they shall answer to a stricter standard of representing Christ when they chose to teach about Him, and delivered that Satanic lie from their pulpit.

If Jesus was born with a sin nature, HE needed a Savior. He could not be sacrificed as the pure unblemished lamb that He was, as God's word tells us, for the sins of the world, when He Himself was possessed of a sin nature.

Yea I am following the thread , but perhaps not your line of thinking ( not a insult) . Still I may have over looked a thing or two. Generally in conversation with folks on sin concerning Mary those arguing that she was sinless her entire life use the angel’s greeting as a prooftext . I apparently goofed thinking you were approaching it from that angle. So I take it that you believe that she may have sinned but was regenerate or had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit correct ?
As to the heresy of Apollinarism I agree that Jesus did not have a sin nature. You would have thought that it was taken care of by the Christian Church in 381 . Still it seems to pop up
Blessings
Bill

 

[JamOn]

In Jewish tradition that would be referring to His coming to the age of 13, when Jewish boys today celebrate that coming of age with a bar mitzvah. They've reached maturity and are considered adult and with the same rights.
Jesus would have then been considered the Son of the Law.

So if it’s his coming of age at 13, scripture says reject evil and choose good, was before he was 12 was he not rejecting evil?

 

[JamOn]

Hebrews 2

16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. 18For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

 

[JamOn]

Jesus was born in the same sinful flesh as anybody, yet rejected the sin nature of the flesh

 

[Laish]

Jesus was born in the same sinful flesh as anybody, yet rejected the sin nature of the flesh

Can you please demonstrate from scripture where Jesus had sinful flesh ? Also what do you believe Adam’s nature was before the fall ?
Blessings
Bill

 

[JamOn]

Can you please demonstrate from scripture where Jesus had sinful flesh ? Also what do you believe Adam’s nature was before the fall ?
Blessings
Bill

He didn’t he rejected it, do you think Jesus was born with a special body different from his brethren? Different from you

 

[JamOn]

The sin nature was born because of the disobedience in the garden, so yes Jesus has to take that on as well being born a human.

 

[Laish]

The sin nature was born because of the disobedience in the garden, so yes Jesus has to take that on as well being born a human.

So meaning Jesus had a unfallen human nature, but during his incarnation , he lived in a fallen world. So even the incarnate God was not above our fallen existence. “For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin”
Is that your point ?
Blessings
Bill