Seeking Biblical contradictions.

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Robo36

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#1
Nov 27, 2019
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#1
Seeking answers for biblical contradictions.

John 3: 13 No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man.

Genesis 5:22-24 Enoch walked with God2 after he fathered Methuselah 300 years and had other sons and daughters. 23 Thus all the days of Enoch were 365 years. 24 Enoch walked with God, and he was not,3 for God took him.

2 Kings 2:11, "And as they still went on and talked, behold, chariots of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."
 
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John146

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#3
Jan 13, 2016
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Robo36 said:
Seeking answers for biblical contradictions.

John 3: 13 No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man.

Genesis 5:22-24 Enoch walked with God2 after he fathered Methuselah 300 years and had other sons and daughters. 23 Thus all the days of Enoch were 365 years. 24 Enoch walked with God, and he was not,3 for God took him.

2 Kings 2:11, "And as they still went on and talked, behold, chariots of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."
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Enoch nor Elijah ascended into heaven, but rather they were taken up. Big difference. Man, on his own, cannot ascend into heaven. He always needs the help of God.
 
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John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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Robo36 said:
Seeking answers for biblical contradictions.

John 3: 13 No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man.

Genesis 5:22-24 Enoch walked with God2 after he fathered Methuselah 300 years and had other sons and daughters. 23 Thus all the days of Enoch were 365 years. 24 Enoch walked with God, and he was not,3 for God took him.

2 Kings 2:11, "And as they still went on and talked, behold, chariots of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."
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Also, "And as it is appointed unto man once to die, but after this the judgment."
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

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Dec 10, 2019
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John146 said:
Enoch nor Elijah ascended into heaven, but rather they were taken up. Big difference. Man, on his own, cannot ascend into heaven. He always needs the help of God.
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I think that’s appropriate and true. Jesus was able to ascend on His own as Enoch and Elijah was “Taken up” by the grace of God.
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

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Dec 10, 2019
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Robo36 said:
Seeking answers for biblical contradictions.

John 3: 13 No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man.

Genesis 5:22-24 Enoch walked with God2 after he fathered Methuselah 300 years and had other sons and daughters. 23 Thus all the days of Enoch were 365 years. 24 Enoch walked with God, and he was not,3 for God took him.

2 Kings 2:11, "And as they still went on and talked, behold, chariots of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."
Click to expand...
Read John146’s post. That pretty much answers your question.
 
Bingo

Bingo

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3418_thumbnail - Copy - Copy - Copy (4) - Copy - Copy - Copy - Copy.jpg Agree.png
 
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TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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John146 said:
Enoch nor Elijah ascended into heaven, but rather they were taken up. Big difference. Man, on his own, cannot ascend into heaven. He always needs the help of God.
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Regarding the Two Witnesses [though a future setting, of course (note: in John 3:13 it is "PERFECT tense")], if you believe the Two Witnesses are indeed two persons, Revelation 11:12 says "And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up [imperative] hither. And they ascended up [G305 anebēsan - ACTIVE] to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them."

Now, I wouldn't say they did this "without help [from God]"... but I'm just saying that it does say "they ascended up [ACTIVE]" rather than "went up [in a passive sense]" or "was[/were] taken up [passive]" like is said of Jesus in Acts 1:9 (using a different verb, G1869... but is there "passive," still)

:unsure:
 
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John146

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TheDivineWatermark said:
Regarding the Two Witnesses [though a future setting, of course (note: in John 3:13 it is "PERFECT tense")], if you believe the Two Witnesses are indeed two persons, Revelation 11:12 says "And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up [imperative] hither. And they ascended up [G305 anebēsan - ACTIVE] to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them."

Now, I wouldn't say they did this "without help [from God]"... but I'm just saying that it does say "they ascended up [ACTIVE]" rather than "went up [in a passive sense]" or "was[/were] taken up [passive]" like is said of Jesus in Acts 1:9 (using a different verb, G1869... but is there "passive," still)

:unsure:
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Did they not have the assistance from God calling them up hither? God speaks, it happens.

Revelation 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
 
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TheDivineWatermark

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John146 said:
Did they not have the assistance from God calling them up hither? God speaks, it happens.

Revelation 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
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Well, that's why I said,

Now, I wouldn't say they did this "without help [from God]"... but I'm just saying that it does say "they ascended up [ACTIVE]" rather than "went up [in a passive sense]" or "was[/were] taken up [passive]" like is said of Jesus in Acts 1:9
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[note to readers: "caught up / harpazo / harpagēsometha [PASSIVE]" ;) 1Th4:17]
 
StrugglingTilMyReward

StrugglingTilMyReward

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#11
Aug 10, 2019
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#11
Robo36 said:
Seeking answers for biblical contradictions.

John 3: 13 No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man.

Genesis 5:22-24 Enoch walked with God2 after he fathered Methuselah 300 years and had other sons and daughters. 23 Thus all the days of Enoch were 365 years. 24 Enoch walked with God, and he was not,3 for God took him.

2 Kings 2:11, "And as they still went on and talked, behold, chariots of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."
Click to expand...
Personally I don't worry about it....I don't expect perfection from anything wrought of human hands, even that which has divine inspiration. I do realize that many will seek any flaw, perceived or otherwise, and upon finding one will use it as an excuse to tear down an entire structure.
 
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watcher2013

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Aug 6, 2013
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John146 said:
Enoch nor Elijah ascended into heaven, but rather they were taken up. Big difference. Man, on his own, cannot ascend into heaven. He always needs the help of God.
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Should we start a new thread for thisvfollow up question?
In hebrews 11, the author gave emphasis that enoch did not taste death for he was taken by God...
Why he didnt with regards to elijah?
 
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Robo36

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Nov 27, 2019
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#13
John146 said:
Enoch nor Elijah ascended into heaven, but rather they were taken up. Big difference. Man, on his own, cannot ascend into heaven. He always needs the help of God.
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Taken up to where?
 
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Robo36

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Nov 27, 2019
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#15
StrugglingTilMyReward said:
Personally I don't worry about it....I don't expect perfection from anything wrought of human hands, even that which has divine inspiration. I do realize that many will seek any flaw, perceived or otherwise, and upon finding one will use it as an excuse to tear down an entire structure.
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I do not seek to "tear down an entire structure." I seek to strengthen my faith. I seek answers for that whenever I find seeming scriptural contradictions. I hope some answers are here.
 
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Robo36

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Nov 27, 2019
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#16
John146 said:
To heaven? Is that wrong? You trying to catch me?;)
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"Catch you" in what?

How does your answer correlate with John 3: 13, No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man.
 
breno785au

breno785au

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#17
Robo36 said:
I do not seek to "tear down an entire structure." I seek to strengthen my faith. I seek answers for that whenever I find seeming scriptural contradictions. I hope some answers are here.
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Good on you for asking questions, nothing wrong with that.
 
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John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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Robo36 said:
"Catch you" in what?

How does your answer correlate with John 3: 13, No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man.
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No one has ascended into heaven. They were all caught up by the Lord. Only Jesus can ascend into heaven.

That's exactly where I thought you'd go, therefore "catch me" in a false statement.
 
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Robo36

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Nov 27, 2019
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#19
John146 said:
No one has ascended into heaven. They were all caught up by the Lord. Only Jesus can ascend into heaven.

That's exactly where I thought you'd go, therefore "catch me" in a false statement.
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I don't understand your answer. "Caught up by the Lord" to where?
 
StrugglingTilMyReward

StrugglingTilMyReward

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#20
Robo36 said:
I do not seek to "tear down an entire structure." I seek to strengthen my faith. I seek answers for that whenever I find seeming scriptural contradictions. I hope some answers are here.
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I apologize, I wasn't meaning to refer to you specifically....I see it in terms of the broader culture, and I get contradictions tossed at me all the time by friends and colleagues...as in 'how can you believe the Bible when....yada yada yada'. I think there are lots of people out there, who upon finding a flaw or an inconsistency (seemingly or otherwise) that they then seek to tear down the entire structure...
 
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