Removal Theology not Replacement Theology

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
GandalfTheWhite

GandalfTheWhite

Senior Member
#21
Jan 25, 2015
9,225
3,204
113
#21
Dave-L said:
After Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross, the only biblical Israel is the Church with believing gentiles grafted into the faithful remaining from the twelve tribes. The unbelievers replaced by them. Which tribe do you belong to?
Click to expand...
Deuteronomy 30:6
"Moreover the LORD your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, so that you may live.

Deuteronomy 10:14-16
"Behold, to the LORD your God belong heaven and the highest heavens, the earth and all that is in it. "Yet on your fathers did the LORD set His affection to love them, and He chose their descendants after them, even you above all peoples, as it is this day. "So circumcise your heart, and stiffen your neck no longer.

Jeremiah 4:4
"Circumcise yourselves to the LORD And remove the foreskins of your heart, Men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem, Or else My wrath will go forth like fire And burn with none to quench it, Because of the evil of your deeds."

The concept was found before the cross. God does not change. Never will :)
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#22
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
#22
GandalfTheWhite said:
Deuteronomy 30:6
"Moreover the LORD your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, so that you may live.

Deuteronomy 10:14-16
"Behold, to the LORD your God belong heaven and the highest heavens, the earth and all that is in it. "Yet on your fathers did the LORD set His affection to love them, and He chose their descendants after them, even you above all peoples, as it is this day. "So circumcise your heart, and stiffen your neck no longer.

Jeremiah 4:4
"Circumcise yourselves to the LORD And remove the foreskins of your heart, Men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem, Or else My wrath will go forth like fire And burn with none to quench it, Because of the evil of your deeds."

The concept was found before the cross. God does not change. Never will :)
Click to expand...
Abraham and the Church (believers only) are circumcised in heart. Physical circumcision made unbelievers Jews and unbelieving members of Israel. Just as some believers and mostly unbelievers are documented US citizens.
 
GandalfTheWhite

GandalfTheWhite

Senior Member
#23
Jan 25, 2015
9,225
3,204
113
#23
Dave-L said:
Abraham and the Church (believers only) are circumcised in heart. Physical circumcision made unbelievers Jews and unbelieving members of Israel. Just as some believers and mostly unbelievers are documented US citizens.
Click to expand...
:) God gave Moses the verses in Deuteronomy so not Abraham or the church.

The physical circumcision was an outward sign of an inward change (almost like being baptised)
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#24
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
#24
GandalfTheWhite said:
:) God gave Moses the verses in Deuteronomy so not Abraham or the church.

The physical circumcision was an outward sign of an inward change (almost like being baptised)
Click to expand...
Israel was pure evil for the most part. All circumcised. God Circumcises the hearts of believers. But most were circumcised in the flesh only.
 
GandalfTheWhite

GandalfTheWhite

Senior Member
#25
Jan 25, 2015
9,225
3,204
113
#25
Dave-L said:
Israel was pure evil for the most part. All circumcised. God Circumcises the hearts of believers. But most were circumcised in the flesh only.
Click to expand...
This is why I say circumcision of the heart was not only for Abraham and the church but for everyone, always.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#27
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#27
Nehemiah6 said:
So what you are telling us is that Ezekiel 48 is in fact NONSENSE?

Let's hope no one believes any of your nonsense (and not on just this subject).
Click to expand...
Ezekiel's vision was about God's elect, Jacob as Israel. The division of the inherited lands of the tribes, and the instructions on setting up of the Temple of God. Ezk 10:10, And as for their appearances, they four had one likeness, as if a wheel had been in a wheel. I believe the outer wheel represents "all of God's elect people, which is the invisible church (the kingdom of Christ) and the inter wheel represents the visible church, "the few that are called" (many called, but few chosen). All of God's elect have the assurance of eternal heaven.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#28
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#28
crossnote said:
Romans 11:25 NASB
[25] For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery-so that you will not be wise in your own estimation-that a partial hardening has happened to Israel 'until' the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;

How can you equate the church with Israel when Paul makes a three-way distinction...'brethren', 'Israel' and 'Gentiles'. Or are you saying a partial hardening has happened to the Church until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in?
Click to expand...
Israel is the nation of the Jews. All Israel is not of Israel, Rom 9:6. Gen 33:28, God changed Jacob's name to no more be called Jacob, but to be called Israel. Jacob/Israel is representative of God's elect, Rom 9:11. Jacob/Israel is the invisible church made up of all of God's elect which is from every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation, Rev 5:9. Many called, but few chosen, Matt 20:16. (the few chosen is the visible church).
 
G

garee

Banned
#29
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#29
GandalfTheWhite said:
:) God gave Moses the verses in Deuteronomy so not Abraham or the church.

The physical circumcision was an outward sign of an inward change (almost like being baptised)
Click to expand...
Circumcision is a ceremonial law to the unbelieving world is a sign of the "first born". It is used to represent Jesus as our bloody husband beforehand and the glory that followed his finished work. The graves were opened opening the gates of resurrection in heaven witnessed by many angels.
 
G

garee

Banned
#30
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#30
ForestGreenCook said:
Israel is the nation of the Jews. All Israel is not of Israel, Rom 9:6. Gen 33:28, God changed Jacob's name to no more be called Jacob, but to be called Israel. Jacob/Israel is representative of God's elect, Rom 9:11. Jacob/Israel is the invisible church made up of all of God's elect which is from every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation, Rev 5:9. Many called, but few chosen, Matt 20:16. (the few chosen is the visible church).
Click to expand...
I would agree the name change represents the born again position of mankind. Nothing to do with the flesh of mankind but rather a new born again spirit and heart. He renamed her Christian in the book of Acts.
 
Kolistus

Kolistus

Well-known member
#31
Feb 3, 2020
538
276
63
#31
GandalfTheWhite said:
Unfortunately this topic is complicated and takes time and lots of posts.

The theory is 100% correct that we become part of Israel when we accept Christ as our Saviour. Jesus said :
Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

So either Jesus lied or He changed his mind, or we form part of Israel.

The Bible teach us that God cannot change and the plan for our salvation was there at the foundation of the earth. Thus the plan is the same plan, Jesus was not on a high teaching this (Mat15:24) and then had to change his mind. He knew what He said. We are part of Israel but this is all spiritual because my DNA can’t be changed.
Click to expand...
Jesus said go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel because He was under the law and came to fulfill what needed to be fulfilled. After the resurrection Jesus gave the great commission to go into all the nations. Things change in the Bible all the time
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#32
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#32
The church did not replace Israel. The church is not a new or Spiritual Israel. The church has inherited the blessing intended for Israel through the Savior. Israel is going to be restored after the great tribulation.

Dispensations are important as a tool to understand how God is dealing with mankind.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#33
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#33
It should be pretty easy to show this with Scripture.

Romans 9:6-8
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Seems pretty definitive to me. The Lord doesn't say He will be the Way for a time but when all the gentiles make it in then He won't be the Way any more and everyone can go back to the Old Way.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#34
Nov 24, 2012
30,769
3,678
113
#34
ForestGreenCook said:
Israel is the nation of the Jews. All Israel is not of Israel, Rom 9:6. Gen 33:28, God changed Jacob's name to no more be called Jacob, but to be called Israel. Jacob/Israel is representative of God's elect, Rom 9:11. Jacob/Israel is the invisible church made up of all of God's elect which is from every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation, Rev 5:9. Many called, but few chosen, Matt 20:16. (the few chosen is the visible church).
Click to expand...
So you left my point unanswered even though you chose to respond to it. Good one.

BTW all Israel is not Israel' simply refers to the fact that out of the descendents of Abraham --->Isaac--->Jacob, not all have true faith, only a remnant of Jews...those of the elect that God had reserved for Himself. Read on...
Romans 9:7-8 NASB
[7] nor are they all children because they are Abraham's descendants, but: "through ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS WILL BE NAMED." [8] That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#35
#35
GandalfTheWhite said:
Unfortunately this topic is complicated and takes time and lots of posts.

The theory is 100% correct that we become part of Israel when we accept Christ as our Saviour. Jesus said :
Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

So either Jesus lied or He changed his mind, or we form part of Israel.

The Bible teach us that God cannot change and the plan for our salvation was there at the foundation of the earth. Thus the plan is the same plan, Jesus was not on a high teaching this (Mat15:24) and then had to change his mind. He knew what He said. We are part of Israel but this is all spiritual because my DNA can’t be changed.
Click to expand...
It’s not about salvation bro
it’s about Gods plan and specific
Promises to Israel here on earth
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#37
#37
Dave-L said:
Dispensationalists say the church (Israel) replaced Israel. And this is impossible. God removed the unbelievers from Israel with only believers remaining. Jesus. Paul, etc. And grafted believing gentiles into the place of the unbelievers he removed.
Click to expand...
No you people do
you can’t even get this right

Smh
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#38
#38
Dave-L said:
Biblical Israel is Jesus and the church.
Click to expand...
we are talking about physical Isreal and the promises given to them

Please Learn to tell the difference
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#39
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#39
GandalfTheWhite said:
Unfortunately this topic is complicated and takes time and lots of posts.

The theory is 100% correct that we become part of Israel when we accept Christ as our Saviour. Jesus said :
Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

So either Jesus lied or He changed his mind, or we form part of Israel.

The Bible teach us that God cannot change and the plan for our salvation was there at the foundation of the earth. Thus the plan is the same plan, Jesus was not on a high teaching this (Mat15:24) and then had to change his mind. He knew what He said. We are part of Israel but this is all spiritual because my DNA can’t be changed.
Click to expand...
The sheep of the house of Israel are not lost because they had not accepted Jesus. John 15:16, Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, (God adds to the church daily such as should be saved) and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain; that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it to you. They were lost because they were babes in Christ, and were not able to digest the meat of the word. If we are sheep, we are already born again children of God. The called preachers are not called to save souls to eternal heaven, but are called to teach those that are babes in Christ the full knowledge of the word, and to feed the flock, the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#40
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#40
eternally-gratefull said:
we are talking about physical Isreal and the promises given to them

Please Learn to tell the difference
Click to expand...
All Israel (the nation) is not of Jacob/Israel (the elect=the church). You need to understand how to divide the nation of Israel, from Jacob/Israel=the church. God changed Jacob's name to be called no more Jacob, but to be called Israel, Gen 33:28.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.