Pentecostal and Charismatic

[Dave-L]

It is simply not based on the what eyes see "called the lust of the eye" (a hope in the things seen) .God performs miracle all day every day. We walk by sight . Not by observing the temporal.

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

We don't have anything like the miracles the Apostles performed and by those like Philip they laid their hands on.

 

[Dave-L]

Cell phones can capture the witness of men. But the witness of faith as God's labor of love that works in us is the greater witness.

1 John 5:9If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son

Same thing we can clone a body . But cannot clone a spirit or a soul.


I can't make you see the things of God. That is a work he performs when we do mix faith (the unseen ) in what we do see or hear .It is the work of God that we can believe. And not of the imaginations of our faithless heart.

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

He reveals how the unseen hands of the gospel works spiritually to heal .

Some that walked down the three avenues in 1 John. When they with the lust of their eyes saw the result of the gospel being preached. They made the apostles into a legion of gods in the likeness of men .As if God was a man to begin with .

There is no power in the corrupted hands of men . God moves men. Men do not move .God he never sleeps. He has the upper hand.

And there they preached the gospel. And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked: The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed, Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked. And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men. And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker. Acts14:7-12

As a response of being called gods. They did not say thank you for noticing . But rather tore their clothes showing blasphemy of the Holy Spirit not seen. Blasphemy. . . giving credit to what the eyes standing in the unseen holy place as the things of God .A abomination of desolation


1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Study to learn the diference between the the things of men seen and those of God not seen (faith) .Its there where the father tries to get his foot in the door .It as it is written makes him flee.

Let's see some miracles in a world flooded with cell phone cameras, if the Pentecostals got it right.

 

[Dave-L]

Where's your faith then

You would need to know me personally to evaluate my faith.

 

[notuptome]

No, Joel does not say 'not for the church today.' You are carrying your hyperdispensationalism to ridiculous extremes. Joel also did not cancel God's normal way of doing things.

Job lived in the land of Uz. That's where the Edomites lived, and it could have been before Israel took possession of the land. So this is likely a Gentile conversation that tells how God warns men, not just Jews, through dreams. This was something God did even before the outpouring.

Joel says God will pour out of His Spirit upon 'all flesh'. Peter, in this sermon, says the promise of the Spirit is also for them that are 'afar off' a term Paul used to describe gentiles.

You miss the change in Joel from all to specific groups. Joel was not saying all would dream dreams or see visions. Peter told of the folks present at Pentecost that it was not a complete fulfillment of Joel because there is more that is Israel specific yet to be fulfilled. You just need to keep the door open to new prophecy to usher in the great delusion that is certainly to come.

It seems like you are reading some ideas into the verse that are not there. If you mean that God no longer spoke through visions and dreams after Jesus was born, died, rose, or ascended, that would contradict the book of Acts.

God speaking through prophets was a lesser thing than speaking through His Son, but God continued to speak through prophets. Christ said He would send prophets.

The problem with your post was not rightly dividing the word of truth. Other scripture contradicts the points you read into these passages.

Only your incorrect interpretation creates any contradictions in what I have said and what the word of God has declared. Pentecostalism's need to justify an unbiblical behavior is the problem not what God has declared.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[presidente]

You miss the change in Joel from all to specific groups. Joel was not saying all would dream dreams or see visions. Peter told of the folks present at Pentecost that it was not a complete fulfillment of Joel because there is more that is Israel specific yet to be fulfilled. You just need to keep the door open to new prophecy to usher in the great delusion that is certainly to come.

Only your incorrect interpretation creates any contradictions in what I have said and what the word of God has declared. Pentecostalism's need to justify an unbiblical behavior is the problem not what God has declared.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Your reasoning is flawed. If God said in the last days Israelite men and women will dreams dreams that is not proof that Gentiles will not dream dreams. It does not cancel out other scripture that applies to Gentiles also.

That is like saying that Luke and John show Jesus, the apostles and 5000 and 4000 Jewish people eating fish, do therefore no Gentiles have ever eaten fish. It is just plain bad reasoning.

And we should not reject the work of the Spirit and Biblical teaching on spiritual gifts out of fear of the great delusion. One might argue that the Saducee beliefs entailing rejection or skepticism toward prophecy angels and would keep one from believing in the false prophet in Revelation, but the Saducees were still in error.

 

[presidente]

I already believe and that you don't have the goods.

You do not believe what the Bible says about spiritual gifts. If you saw a sign would you believe?

 

[notuptome]

Your reasoning is flawed. If God said in the last days Israelite men and women will dreams dreams that is not proof that Gentiles will not dream dreams. It does not cancel out other scripture that applies to Gentiles also.

That is like saying that Luke and John show Jesus, the apostles and 5000 and 4000 Jewish people eating fish, do therefore no Gentiles have ever eaten fish. It is just plain bad reasoning.

And we should not reject the work of the Spirit and Biblical teaching on spiritual gifts out of fear of the great delusion. One might argue that the Saducee beliefs entailing rejection or skepticism toward prophecy angels and would keep one from believing in the false prophet in Revelation, but the Saducees were still in error.

Instead of confronting the truth you simply run off the rails.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

You do not believe what the Bible says about spiritual gifts. If you saw a sign would you believe?

Are not signs for Jews and Gentiles seek wisdom? There are only three gifts that ended the rest continue but where are signs in the gifts?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Dave-L]

You do not believe what the Bible says about spiritual gifts. If you saw a sign would you believe?

I believe the gifts ended with the Apostles. Scripture proves this. If any miracles were for today, a trillion cell phones would have them on YouTube.

 

[Reba1]

Peter and the milennium.

thank you for a clear reply

 

[presidente]

It works like this. The miracles were signs meant to be seen. But not even one cell phone capture of anything remotely approaching a miracle exists. It would make headlines if it did. You need to make the miracles you claim visible for all to see.

Get out your cell phone and look up stuff like 'street healing' 'healing in Jesus' name, etc. On YouTube and research and interview every case. Then make your claims.

Some will likely not pan out. But you might dismiss the legitimate ones because of your world view. If you see a healing and reject it as fake, why wouldn't an unbeliever at a newspaper with a similar attitude do the same thing?

Why would you have more faith in reporters than you have in the word of God? Are you a Democrat btw? Does your faith in media extend to Fox news?

 

[presidente]

I believe the gifts ended with the Apostles. Scripture proves this.

Again sow the scriptures. In the past you showed scripturesnthat did not prove this.

 

[Dave-L]

Get out your cell phone and look up stuff like 'street healing' 'healing in Jesus' name, etc. On YouTube and research and interview every case. Then make your claims.

Some will likely not pan out. But you might dismiss the legitimate ones because of your world view. If you see a healing and reject it as fake, why wouldn't an unbeliever at a newspaper with a similar attitude do the same thing?

Why would you have more faith in reporters than you have in the word of God? Are you a Democrat btw? Does your faith in media extend to Fox news?

Lets see you raise the dead or cure a polio victim. Then preach about it.

 

[Dave-L]

Again sow the scriptures. In the past you showed scripturesnthat did not prove this.

You show scriptures where the Baptism came in any other way besides the two outpourings or through an Apostle's hands.

 

[presidente]

You show scriptures where the Baptism came in any other way besides the two outpourings or through an Apostle's hands.

You tie 'to he baptidm' to o gifts in ways you cannot prove. There were people do ping miracles and prophesyings before Acts 2.

Paul was filled with the Spirit without the apostles laying hands on them.

One can pray to operate in a gift (I Cor. 14:23.) Timothy received a gift through prophecy.

Peter days 'as every man hath received the gift' he doesn't say as everyman who had apostlic hands laid on him hath received the gift. I Peter 4.

Paul says gifts are given as the Spirit wills not as the apostles will.

 

[Dave-L]

You tie 'to he baptidm' to o gifts in ways you cannot prove. There were people do ping miracles and prophesyings before Acts 2.

Paul was filled with the Spirit without the apostles laying hands on them.

One can pray to operate in a gift (I Cor. 14:23.) Timothy received a gift through prophecy.

Peter days 'as every man hath received the gift' he doesn't say as everyman who had apostlic hands laid on him hath received the gift. I Peter 4.

Paul says gifts are given as the Spirit wills not as the apostles will.

Paul was an Apostle = had the gifts because of that.

 

[Reba1]

When the likes of Bakker ,Swaggert, Copland , AA Allen, Olsten . Hinn While, Crouch, Jakes good ol deceiving Scofield it has put Pentecostalism is a bad light, The Bethel church in my area is just plain ol creepy . Laying across graves, feathers floating in services , Like used car sales men selling a cheap product.

I saw the fake in about 1956 in a tent meeting with AA Allen . As a child God gave me the insight to understand a frog is a frog in a mason jar it is not a demon. Scratches on a forehead were used to fill offering baskets not for the glory of God.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Isn't Jesus God, God's replacement for the OT Ark come to us tabernacled in flesh ?

Since Scripture does not contradict itself, we are to take that verse in its plain literal sense. The tabernacle and temple on earth were patterned after the heavenly Sanctuary. And Jesus is the High Priest in that sanctuary who has sprinkled His own blood on the Mercy Seat in Heaven.

 

[notuptome]

Paul says gifts are given as the Spirit wills not as the apostles will.

Yes in accordance with what the word of God teaches. Not outside the word of God nor according to the will of the Pentecostal and charismatic movement would have the Holy Spirit to act.

The Holy Spirit is not given to make Pentecostals and charismatics happy but to glorify God. To point lost souls to Christ through the word of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[bojack]

Since Scripture does not contradict itself, we are to take that verse in its plain literal sense. The tabernacle and temple on earth were patterned after the heavenly Sanctuary. And Jesus is the High Priest in that sanctuary who has sprinkled His own blood on the Mercy Seat in Heaven.

There was/is an important powerful OT Ark and David's son Solomon built a temple made with human hands to replace the tent of the tabernacle .. No contradiction imo ... No mention of the Ark after the first temple .. Some say the Rabbis in Israel have recovered that Ark and have it ready/waiting for the next man made temple right now .. If true, I wouldn't think that would be a healthy thing for the earth to stand it up in a new temple .. Interesting for sure