Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

Was the good Samaritan already saved or not?

ASV Luke 10:25-37
¶And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live. But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour? And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead. And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side. But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him, And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee. Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves? And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

so you think you must make yourself righteous first. then Go to God and see here I am lord. accept me? this worries me deeply

as for the good Samaritan. Look in context. Jesus was talking to religious people who thought they were Gods people. and trying to show them how unrighteous they were. because they would be of those who walked around and did not help.

Jesus was mocking their religion and thinking they are righteous. Not trying to tell them how to be saved

 

[Judges1318]

Wrong again

Died THROUGH the law. Of course it is sin that puts us to death, not the law itself:

11For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. - Romans 10:11

But I don't think that's the point you're trying to make.
Jews are dead to the law. Just like us gentiles. It has no more power over them than it does us.

 

[Judges1318]

james letter was written to the Jews.

Why in the world would he need to tell them about the necessity of circumcision if they have been circumcised since 8 years old?

For their kids sake.
(And you mean eight days, right?)

 

[Guojing]

For their kids sake.
(And you mean eight days, right?)

Have you forgotten your conclusion on Acts 21, which happened after James wrote his letter?

18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.

19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.

20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.

23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;

24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

Do you seriously think James wrote his letter believing that the Jews no longer need to circumcise their kids, after what you read what he said to Paul years after that?

 

[Judges1318]

I've heard Roman Catholics, Mormons and Campbellites also say, "the passage interprets itself," then proceed to write it out like this, "You see that a man is justified/saved by works and not by faith alone" in order to teach salvation by faith PLUS WORKS. It's sound to me like you may be in the same boat with them.

Not unless you think continuing to believe is a work like other people here do.

 

[Judges1318]

Do you seriously think James wrote his letter believing that the Jews no longer need to circumcise their kids, after what you read what he said to Paul years after that?

There is not a breath about that in his letter.
That's why I accept it.
Everything in it is in line with the gospel.

 

[mailmandan]

Not unless you think continuing to believe is a work like other people here do.

You make continuing to believe sound like a strenuous endeavor, which sounds like work to me, yet believing (whether initial believing or continuing to believe thereafter) is not a work that merits our salvation. Through believing, we are completely trusting in "Another's work," (Christ's finished work of redemption). Jesus Christ gets all the merit.

 

[Guojing]

There is not a breath about that in his letter.
That's why I accept it.
Everything in it is in line with the gospel.

Haha, okay then, among all the arguments from silence I have seen in this forum, this one really takes the cake.

 

[Judges1318]

Sanctified or 'set apart' as an active participant in the Hebrew Christian community of believers doesn't mean saved, just as an unbelieving spouse in 1 Corinthians 7:14 who is "sanctified" by their believing spouse doesn't mean saved.

God NEVER sanctifies the willfully, habitually sinning fake believer in the church as clean for contact by believers. Just by that alone we know 'sanctified' can't mean that in Hebrews 10:29.

The kind of person that is being spoken about is the person who was sanctified by the blood of Christ (see vs. 10 & 14), but who has chosen to trample on the blood that sanctified him by willfully sinning in a turning away from Christ back to unbelief. The person who does that has nothing left to look forward to but to be damned along with the rest of God's enemies.

Simple read, simple truth.
Once saved always saved is the doctrine that finds it necessary for it's survival to make 'sanctified' mean a fake, willfully sinning believer instead of what the passage itself says it means.

 

[Nobodybutjesus]

so you think you must make yourself righteous first. then Go to God and see here I am lord. accept me? this worries me deeply

as for the good Samaritan. Look in context. Jesus was talking to religious people who thought they were Gods people. and trying to show them how unrighteous they were. because they would be of those who walked around and did not help.

Jesus was mocking their religion and thinking they are righteous. Not trying to tell them how to be saved

I'm not deeply worried about your presumptions so don't woory.

The lawyer was asking Jesus what he shall do to inherit eternal life and Jesus gave him an example of love for a neighbor.

What I am asking is, if the Samaritan in Jesus' example was already saved or not? Yes or no?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You make continuing to believe sound like a strenuous endeavor, which sounds like work to me, yet believing (whether initial believing or continuing to believe thereafter) is not a work that merits our salvation. Through believing, we are completely trusting in "Another's work," (Christ's finished work of redemption). Jesus Christ gets all the merit.

It’s his back foot entrance into works. Withough having to Admit he teaches works

 

[Judges1318]

Haha, okay then, among all the arguments from silence I have seen in this forum, this one really takes the cake.

Good, we agree James says nothing about a law for the Jews and a law for the gentiles.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm not deeply worried about your presumptions so don't woory.

The lawyer was asking Jesus what he shall do to inherit eternal life and Jesus gave him an example of love for a neighbor.

What I am asking is, if the Samaritan in Jesus' example was already saved or not? Yes or no?

Does it really matter?
the Samaritan was not the context or argument. The lawyer thinking he was righteous was

And it’s ok if you care or Not. As a child of God I worry about all people. So I will still worry About the fact it appears that you think you can make yourself right before god or not
have you fulfilled the law? If it. Your cursed as scripture says. The man Jesus spoke to could Not understand that fact if the law either

that’s why Jesus was always exposing their sins and lack of love to get them to see they needed him

 

[Kolistus]

It means exactly what it says.
No twisting, no subversion, no creative interpretations necessary.
The plain words are there for everyone to read.

"18 "...show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works." - James 2:18

"24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone." - James 2:24

The passage interprets itself.

All the verses for faith alone say faith but never faith alone. The person who came up with the phrase Martin Luther believed as James says that a living faith is never alone, but Luther had some issues when it came to his anti-semitism and his low view of James and Revelation.

The Bible can be used to create all sorts of salvation plans by taking verses here and there.
Acts 2:38 taken alone says repentance and baptism, no need for faith.
Acts 22:16 links water baptism to cleansing from sin
John 3:16 says belief, taken alone you could say no need for anything else.
Romans 10:9-10 says confession and faith
John 6:53 is used by catholics to teach communion is required for salvation

The best thing we can do is follow what the New Testament teaches dilligently and apply all of it the best we know how, with a clean conscience purified by the blood of Christ.

Hebrews 9:14
How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!

1 Samuel 16:7
But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."

I have no doubt that the God of grace will not turn away any of His servants. Thats my 2cents

I got brothers from both sides of the debate who I know for sure are serving the Lord and the Lord is using them in ministry.

 

[Guojing]

Good, we agree James says nothing about a law for the Jews and a law for the gentiles.

Acts 21:20-25 already made it clear to me that, James believed Jews must always keep the Law, and his James Chapter 2 reinforced that.

Acts 21:25 is also clear that James is willing to exempt Gentiles from the Law, which is also what he said in at the conclusion of the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15.

I don't even need to interpret those scripture, its what it literally say.

 

[Judges1318]

Now which definition of 'justified' do you believe James is using in verse 24? Is it "accounted as righteous" or "shown to be righteous?" Spell it out for all of us to see.

I did that already.
Just as we know which definition of 'sanctified' is being used in Hebrews 10:29 from the context itself, we learn from the context of James 2 what definition of 'justified' James is using in vs. 24...

"I will show you my faith by my works." - James 2:18

"24You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. " - James 2:24

No interpretations required. It says it right there. So much of the Bible is like this, yet we have these strained and convoluted and complicated explanations of scripture that ignore the plain words of scripture right under our noses. Of course this is done with the goal of advancing false doctrines. Look at what the church has done to tithing. It's like no one can see the plain words of scripture about it in the Bible and how it doesn't match what the church teaches you it says.

 

[mailmandan]

God NEVER sanctifies the willfully, habitually sinning fake believer in the church as clean for contact by believers. Just by that alone we know 'sanctified' can't mean that in Hebrews 10:29.

These "nominal" Christians/make believers certainly were "sanctified" or "set apart" (but not saved) as active participants in the Hebrew Christian community of believers, but you remain satisfied with your contradiction between Hebrews 10:10,14 and Hebrews 10:29 and are too committed at this point to abandon your biased agenda and accept the truth.

The kind of person that is being spoken about is the person who was sanctified by the blood of Christ (see vs. 10 & 14), but who has chosen to trample on the blood that sanctified him by willfully sinning in a turning away from Christ back to unbelief. The person who does that has nothing left to look forward to but to be damned along with the rest of God's enemies.

They were "sanctified" or "set apart" by the blood of Christ only because of their association with the Hebrew Christian community of believers. Also, to "sin willfully" in the Greek (Hebrews 10:26) carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is continuous action, a matter of practice. The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9). *Hermeneutics.

*NOWHERE in context does it specifically say the person who "trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant" was "saved" and/or "lost their salvation."

Simple read, simple truth.

It really is simple truth IF you read it in CONTEXT and don't fail to PROPERLY HARMONIZE SCRIPTURE WITH SCRIPTURE before reaching your conclusion on doctrine.

 

[Judges1318]

All the verses for faith alone say faith but never faith alone. The person who came up with the phrase Martin Luther believed as James says that a living faith is never alone, but Luther had some issues when it came to his anti-semitism and his low view of James and Revelation.

The Bible can be used to create all sorts of salvation plans by taking verses here and there.
Acts 2:38 taken alone says repentance and baptism, no need for faith.
Acts 22:16 links water baptism to cleansing from sin
John 3:16 says belief, taken alone you could say no need for anything else.
Romans 10:9-10 says confession and faith
John 6:53 is used by catholics to teach communion is required for salvation

The best thing we can do is follow what the New Testament teaches dilligently and apply all of it the best we know how, with a clean conscience purified by the blood of Christ.

Hebrews 9:14
How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!

1 Samuel 16:7
But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."

I have no doubt that the God of grace will not turn away any of His servants. Thats my 2cents

I got brothers from both sides of the debate who I know for sure are serving the Lord and the Lord is using them in ministry.

The problem is osas has devolved even further into a doctrine that says you don't even have to continue to believe in Christ to be saved when He comes back. That's where it crosses the line from being just another innocent opinion about doctrine.

 

[mailmandan]

I did that already.
Just as we know which definition of 'sanctified' is being used in Hebrews 10:29 from the context itself, we learn from the context of James 2 what definition of 'justified' James is using in vs. 24...

"I will show you my faith by my works." - James 2:18

"24You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. " - James 2:24

No interpretations required. It says it right there. So much of the Bible is like this, yet we have these strained and convoluted and complicated explanations of scripture that ignore the plain words of scripture right under our noses. Of course this is done with the goal of advancing false doctrines. Look at what the church has done to tithing. It's like no one can see the plain words of scripture about it in the Bible and how it doesn't match what the church teaches you it says.

The context of Hebrews 10 creates a contradiction between vss. 10,14 and vs. 29 (according to your interpretation) as I already explained, but you don't seem to care as long as your false doctrine is advanced. Now in regards to the word "justified" in James 2:24, SPELL IT OUT. Does the definition of "justified" in James 2:24 mean "ACCOUNTED AS RIGHTEOUS" OR "SHOWN TO BE RIGHTEOUS."

 

[Nobodybutjesus]

Does it really matter?
the Samaritan was not the context or argument. The lawyer thinking he was righteous was

And it’s ok if you care or Not. As a child of God I worry about all people. So I will still worry About the fact it appears that you think you can make yourself right before god or not
have you fulfilled the law? If it. Your cursed as scripture says. The man Jesus spoke to could Not understand that fact if the law either

that’s why Jesus was always exposing their sins and lack of love to get them to see they needed him

Jesus words matter to me and I don't think that He is a mocker but is certainly a teacher. Now before getting somewhere else, is it a Yes or No?

I'm asking you this to give you the opportunity to prove your point that those people in Matthew 25 we're not saved and therefore have no capacity to love.