Where in scripture are instructions to cancel the feasts?
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By the way, the Law required the Israelites to live in tabernacles made from native materials during this time period, and they needed to be kept in Jerusalem.
I know that most modern-day "Hebrew Roots Movement" people DON'T do this but they live in tents. Some stay in hotel rooms. Jews in Jerusalem live in shelters constructed on their balcony or something.
So, almost no one observes Tabernacles, in particular, in the biblically prescribed manner.
And, even if one allowed that they could observe these days in their area, in some years, it is freezing cold in that time period. I belonged to a cult that demanded their membership keep these days. One of the meeting places was Wisconsin Dells, Wisconsin. In many years, it was so cold that heaters were required in the meeting hall.
So, there's no way that the average person is going to live in a Sukkot in these climates.
The days were meant to be observed in Israel, and they coincided with the agricultural cycle in this land. They were not meant to be universalized across the entire earth.
Now, if someone wants to observe them in some sort of way, I don't care, but claiming that everyone must observe them is wrong...I can't imagine an Alaskan dwelling in a Sukkot made of plant life from Palestine in frigid temperatures.
That's why these groups have to modify their observances in a significant manner, and basically change God's law in order to claim they are observing them. Which is exactly what they claim non observers are doing
I finally figured that out years after I left the Judaizer cult.
I know that most modern-day "Hebrew Roots Movement" people DON'T do this but they live in tents. Some stay in hotel rooms. Jews in Jerusalem live in shelters constructed on their balcony or something.
So, almost no one observes Tabernacles, in particular, in the biblically prescribed manner.
And, even if one allowed that they could observe these days in their area, in some years, it is freezing cold in that time period. I belonged to a cult that demanded their membership keep these days. One of the meeting places was Wisconsin Dells, Wisconsin. In many years, it was so cold that heaters were required in the meeting hall.
So, there's no way that the average person is going to live in a Sukkot in these climates.
The days were meant to be observed in Israel, and they coincided with the agricultural cycle in this land. They were not meant to be universalized across the entire earth.
Now, if someone wants to observe them in some sort of way, I don't care, but claiming that everyone must observe them is wrong...I can't imagine an Alaskan dwelling in a Sukkot made of plant life from Palestine in frigid temperatures.
That's why these groups have to modify their observances in a significant manner, and basically change God's law in order to claim they are observing them. Which is exactly what they claim non observers are doing
I finally figured that out years after I left the Judaizer cult.
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When Jesus fulfilling all that was spoken of Him in prophecy Jesus did nothing to cancel anything God the Father did or said, for Jesus was one with the Father. Jesus told us this. Jesus made it all come into full effect, He fulfilled it. The word fulfill has nothing at all to do with the words ended or cancellation. In fact it is the opposite to those words.
That the Levitical Law is gone is a misleading statement to the facts. God never ever meant for the fleshly laws to be obeyed only by the fleshly rituals as scripture tells us in the first chapter of Leviticus. Those rituals were given in the spirit of the men who lead children to school as Paul explained to us and they were never to be used as the way to obey the Lord and when they were used in the wrong way God cancelled them. But the world God created had the law of love as it's foundation as scripture explains and each instruction we are given has to do with that. You cannot cancel how God created the earth to operate. The very tides of the ocean is part of it, also as we are told.
Honoring the feasts is a way we are told to honor and praise God for the salvation He offers. God does not cancel our need to honor and praise Him. We say we do this through Sunday church, Christmas, and Easter. All those things are man's way to do this in a man made fashion. We do not quibble about them, usually. So why in the world would we fuss at each other about doing the worship, praise and honor in the way that God suggests?
Honoring the feasts is a way we are told to honor and praise God for the salvation He offers. God does not cancel our need to honor and praise Him. We say we do this through Sunday church, Christmas, and Easter. All those things are man's way to do this in a man made fashion. We do not quibble about them, usually. So why in the world would we fuss at each other about doing the worship, praise and honor in the way that God suggests?
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i agree with *most* of this but they were meant to be kept just as they are written. the primary purpose is like you mentioned, as a teaching little children in school, to show us God in Christ. and the primary lesson of the law is spiritual -- but this was given to Israel, rebellious Israel, who grumbled and accused God of evil from the very day they were redeemed from Egypt. so the law is a revelation of God to a stubborn and rebellious people who refuse to listen and believe. it's made for sinners, not the righteous, but it instructs the righteous -- it's the wise who get understanding and the fool who mocks.
to us He has shown great grace and love, that we have this law to behold, without being condemned by it - because He has brought us into His olive tree through His own blood. we are blessed to see this and know Who it speaks of. it's in that that i completely am in accord with you; it is misleading to say it is gone - it is about Christ, it is about the person and work of God, and He does not fade away or become obsolete. the covenant that He made with stiff-necked Israel is not the covenant He made with us - to us He gave better promises, the promise He even gave Abraham now more clearly resolved in His Son. the Torah isn't gone; the veil is removed from it. we died to it so that in Him we could have life, and living, we can now behold the truth of it with unveiled eyes.
i wish we, as a forum, could talk about it without having to go through all this 'we're not under it' bickering every time.
that we could look at the command not to mix fabrics and be awed by what it teaches, rather than scoff at it as though it's petty and outmoded. it's not petty; it's the word of God! no, you don't sin by wearing a pair of socks with elastic in them to keep them on your legs, but we shouldn't be so dismissive. this is treasure; this is explaining our Lord to us. if we would just look deeply at it! i think you agree with me on that, don't you, sister?
to us He has shown great grace and love, that we have this law to behold, without being condemned by it - because He has brought us into His olive tree through His own blood. we are blessed to see this and know Who it speaks of. it's in that that i completely am in accord with you; it is misleading to say it is gone - it is about Christ, it is about the person and work of God, and He does not fade away or become obsolete. the covenant that He made with stiff-necked Israel is not the covenant He made with us - to us He gave better promises, the promise He even gave Abraham now more clearly resolved in His Son. the Torah isn't gone; the veil is removed from it. we died to it so that in Him we could have life, and living, we can now behold the truth of it with unveiled eyes.
i wish we, as a forum, could talk about it without having to go through all this 'we're not under it' bickering every time.
that we could look at the command not to mix fabrics and be awed by what it teaches, rather than scoff at it as though it's petty and outmoded. it's not petty; it's the word of God! no, you don't sin by wearing a pair of socks with elastic in them to keep them on your legs, but we shouldn't be so dismissive. this is treasure; this is explaining our Lord to us. if we would just look deeply at it! i think you agree with me on that, don't you, sister?
For sin shall no longer have dominion over you...
We are not under the law but under grace
We are not under Torah and there always is only one set of rules...
Paul said to Peter...you who live as a Gentile and Paul lived like one too...there is only one set of NT rules and Jew and Gentle are not under the law...but the moral law the ten commandments and the NT rules are many...but Torah is gone...its so sad that messianic Jewish groups want to stay under the OT law...but they are deceived...i have been part of different groups of them and they all want the law...the law the law...dumb...Peter kill and eat...James the Lord's brother just didn't get it...but Paul did...and Peter did too
We are not under the law but under grace
We are not under Torah and there always is only one set of rules...
Paul said to Peter...you who live as a Gentile and Paul lived like one too...there is only one set of NT rules and Jew and Gentle are not under the law...but the moral law the ten commandments and the NT rules are many...but Torah is gone...its so sad that messianic Jewish groups want to stay under the OT law...but they are deceived...i have been part of different groups of them and they all want the law...the law the law...dumb...Peter kill and eat...James the Lord's brother just didn't get it...but Paul did...and Peter did too
R
I love the OT stories , Yes i call them stories . They are much valued and well remembered from childhood Sunday School. I do not consider them fairy tales . I consider them pictures of Christ, like in the story of Abraham & Issac . Some folks can write things very well not everyone falls into that catagory. From the story of Joshua & Caleb there is a strong picture in my heart/head of them bringing the " great fruits' back to camp amongst the whiner crybabies.
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If you see your fellow Israelite’s donkey or ox fallen on the road, do not ignore it. Help the owner get it to its feet.
A woman must not wear men’s clothing, nor a man wear women’s clothing, for the Lord your God detests anyone who does this.
If you come across a bird’s nest beside the road, either in a tree or on the ground, and the mother is sitting on the young or on the eggs, do not take the mother with the young. You may take the young, but be sure to let the mother go, so that it may go well with you and you may have a long life.
When you build a new house, make a parapet around your roof so that you may not bring the guilt of bloodshed on your house if someone falls from the roof.
Do not plant two kinds of seed in your vineyard; if you do, not only the crops you plant but also the fruit of the vineyard will be defiled.
Do not plow with an ox and a donkey yoked together.
Do not wear clothes of wool and linen woven together.
Make tassels on the four corners of the cloak you wear.
(Deuteronomy 22:4-12)
this is a picture of Christ. our job is to seek Him out in it. (Deuteronomy 22:4-12)
help your neighbor with his fallen ox.
God detests women disguising as men and men disguising as women
take the young for food, but do not take the mother - this will bless you with long life
if you build a roof, make a wall about it, because you are guilty of someone's blood if they are to fall from your construction
mixing seed defiles the crop and its fruit: don't plow with mixed beasts, don't wear mixed garments.
remember this. add tassels to the corners of your cloak.
that is describing righteousness -- that is a portrait of Jesus Christ the Lord of Glory. it tells us who He is and speaks of salvation from sin and death. it really does. if we truly had wisdom, we would see it clearly here.
where is the wise man or woman?
this kind of thing is what i wish these threads were about. i wish this thread was about a feast, and us all pointing out prefigures of Christ in it, and how by our lives we can reflect them. i wish i could teach them, but i'm an idiot and i don't see it clearly enough to teach anyone, even myself.
R
Eze 12:1 The word of the LORD also came unto me, saying,
Eze 12:2 Son of man, thou dwellest in the midst of a rebellious house, which have eyes to see, and see not; they have ears to hear, and hear not: for they are a rebellious house.
Eze 12:3 Therefore, thou son of man, prepare thee stuff for removing, and remove by day in their sight; and thou shalt remove from thy place to another place in their sight: it may be they will consider, though they be a rebellious house.
Eze 12:2 Son of man, thou dwellest in the midst of a rebellious house, which have eyes to see, and see not; they have ears to hear, and hear not: for they are a rebellious house.
Eze 12:3 Therefore, thou son of man, prepare thee stuff for removing, and remove by day in their sight; and thou shalt remove from thy place to another place in their sight: it may be they will consider, though they be a rebellious house.
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sunday isn't sabbath.
it's the 8th day.
that's different.
sabbath is sabbath. calendar ain't shifted; if you are in Christ, you died.
if we're not under the law, we're not under any of it. we're not under the 10 commandments or some imaginary broken shard of the law someone dissects out and calls 'moral bits'
we're under the perfect law of liberty. love fulfills all these things, including not wearing mixed garments.
it's the 8th day.
that's different.
sabbath is sabbath. calendar ain't shifted; if you are in Christ, you died.
if we're not under the law, we're not under any of it. we're not under the 10 commandments or some imaginary broken shard of the law someone dissects out and calls 'moral bits'
we're under the perfect law of liberty. love fulfills all these things, including not wearing mixed garments.
Fulfill:
- bring to completion or reality; achieve or realize (something desired, promised, or predicted): "he wouldn't be able to fulfill his ambition to visit Naples" synonyms succeed in, attain, realize, consummate, satisfy...
- 2. carry out (a task, duty, or role) as required, pledged, or expected: "some officials were dismissed because they could not fulfill their duties" synonyms carry out, accomplish, achieve, execute, perform... (source: Oxford Dictionaries)
This is a massive conflation of very different concepts. The physical laws God designed govern the physical earth. The Levitical laws were only given to Israel, and are related to physical laws only by their common Giver. Nothing in Scripture suggests that the Levitical laws were "how God created the earth to operate". Further, the "cancellation", as you call it, was God's doing, not man's.
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