Are you a Trinitarian, and if so, can you defend the doctrine?

[JeremiahsCup]

I suppose you are searching for the text stating that God is Trinity.

Keep up!!!

Well I am answering the query of the OP. Firstly do I believe in the Trinity, which I voted I do and that I can defend it. I suppose rather than simply go to John 1 I decided to go to Genesis 1 and 2 to show how the creation of Man, whom is in the image of God, displays the triune nature of God.

 

[Alertandawake]

In the very first sentence scripture of the Bible.

In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth.

Elohim is plural and not singular.

How much understanding do you have on the word “elohim” ? The research I have done is that this word “elohim” can be used as a singular or plural, it all depends on context. My understanding is the word itself can be used in a singular meaning but used as a plural of majesty.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

What I want to know is if the Son has no beginning as God why is He called Son if He always exists for He would not have a Father.

Why does the Bible say Jesus is conceived by the Holy Spirit the third person of the trinity and not God the Son.

Why does the Bible say one God the Father who is above all, and through all, and in you all, and not mention Son or Holy Spirit.

Well, this thread is handy in identifying the non-Trinitarians, which in essence means that their entire theology is suspect.

1. If the Son has a beginning, he is not God. God by definition is uncreated, unique, and worthy of worship. Jesus is God, so therefore
he had no beginning. John 1 says that he is God, along with many NT scriptures quoting the OT identifying him as YHVH.

2. The Holy Spirit is the one who acts within the world. Jesus lives inside the believers, for example, through the mediation of the
Holy Spirit. The mediation of the Holy Spirit does not negate the fact that Jesus dwells within them.

3. The Bible says that Jesus dwells in the believer, too...read Galatians 2 and the entire NT. He is also called the Spirit of Jesus and
the Spirit of the Father. There is one God, in terms of being, who is revealed in three distinct Persons. They are coessential, meaning they share the same essence. Therefore, it is correct and reasonable to refer to the Holy Spirit as either the Spirit of the Father or the Spirit of Jesus.

To be honest, I'm not sure why you bother to ask the questions, as these questions PROVE the Trinity rather than deny it.

Additionally, I have noted that the Father sent his Son to die for mankind, and to reveal Himself...this indicates that Jesus was the Son prior to the incarnation. There is a false view called incarnational sonship that claims Jesus did not become the son until the incarnation. The correct view is eternal sonship. The son was begotten from eternity, and there was never a point when he did not exist as the Son, and the Father did not exist as the Father.

Before you reduce this to human analogies to disprove it, I will tell you these analogies do not work in the God realm. They may make sense in your limited human way of thinking, but not when it comes to describing God.

And, no cultic view works either...Oneness uses a sock-puppet theology which denies relationships within the Triune God that are clearly taught in Scripture. Tri-theism denies monotheism, which is clearly taught in Scripture. Arianism denies the deity of Jesus, as they claim Jesus had a beginning, and that is counter to the teaching of Scripture.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Well I am answering the query of the OP. Firstly do I believe in the Trinity, which I voted I do and that I can defend it. I suppose rather than simply go to John 1 I decided to go to Genesis 1 and 2 to show how the creation of Man, whom is in the image of God, displays the triune nature of God.

I'm not sure what you're saying, but body, soul and spirit isn't an appropriate analogy as the body, soul, and spirit are not distinct Persons. This would be similar to Oneness theology.

It's good that you believe in the Trinity though

 

[JeremiahsCup]

I'm not sure what you're saying, but body, soul and spirit isn't an appropriate analogy as the body, soul, and spirit are not distinct Persons. This would be similar to Oneness theology.

It's good that you believe in the Trinity though

Well the soul and the spirit are the same thing, the breath. I will try to elaborate a little more on the post which Jerzy quoted.

Just as man has a word, God has a Word by which he spoke of all creation into existence in the matrix. This Word of God is Jesus. The Word is formed and begotten when spoken, but the Word also is eternally indwelling and was within God even before God spoke. In like manner man, the little imago dei, begets words but also has his word indwelling within him even before he speaks them. Lastly we must understand a spirit is, a spirit is the breath. You form words with what? Your breath! You, your word, and your breath/spirit are not three different entities, but they are one and the same.


So we see in the Genesis 1 and 2 accounts that the Father God speaks the creation into existence by his Word and crowns the creation with the Man made in his image and God breathed into man's nostrils and it was at that moment that man became a living soul. Man is the ultimate proof of God and the triune nature of God.


Additionally, consider the parallels between the creation in Genesis and the conception of Jesus in the Gospels. You have God the Father placing his Word in the matrix of the virgin by his Holy Spirit.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Yes, they just contradict what God said.

Unfortunately, they propagate a non-scriptural theology as if it was scriptural.

Nope.
Jesus was on earth at his advent.
He prayed to the Father in heaven

The Holy Spirit in a "different space" descended to Jesus at baptism "came to Jesus's space"

I'm not sure what is being said here..can you elaborate?

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Yes, they just contradict what God said.

Unfortunately, they propagate a non-scriptural theology as if it was scriptural.

I'm not sure what you are saying, actually.

Christianity does not teach that there are "three gods". This is pagan polytheism.

It teaches that there is one God, yet three distinct Persons.

If someone claims this is paganism, then they don't know what they are talking about.

And, often they are attempting to reduce God down to the realm of human beings, and are claiming that there can only be one Person for a given Being. In other words, they are trying to apply how things work in the created realm to God.

I would say that's the primary cause between alternate views of God's nature. They are simply trying to impose the rules of the material realm upon God, who is a unique, uncreated Being. Sometimes it is because the Bible uses human language to describe God, and they think the human language is license to reduce God down to their little realm of understanding.

Additionally, they claim that the "Roman Catholic Church" created these doctrines, way before the Roman Catholic Church existed in the form that it existed in the medieval world. It had no such authority and power until much later. These matters were decided and defined at ecumenical councils amongst the bishops of the universal church, and not by Rome.

However, if you listen to anti-Trinitarian cultists, they will spin a narrative that weaves them as the valiant defenders of the truth, while the Roman Catholic church is the villain. Well, the Roman Catholic church is an apostate church, but the anti-Trinitarian cultists are villains themselves.

I've bought into these sort of narratives in the past..I would recommend studying church history in order to realize all the kookiness that has been taught by cultic groups of the past.

 

[Alertandawake]

Isa 9:
6For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

In reference to Isaiah 9:6, how many people here know of the translation in The Septuagint? I ask this because it is different.

 

[Noose]

In reference to Isaiah 9:6, how many people here know of the translation in The Septuagint? I ask this because it is different.

Personally i don't, i doubt many do. Can you please explain.

 

[Alertandawake]

Personally i don't, i doubt many do. Can you please explain.

THis is The Septuagint version of Isaiah 9:6

For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him.

 

[Jerzy]

Well I am answering the query of the OP. Firstly do I believe in the Trinity, which I voted I do and that I can defend it. I suppose rather than simply go to John 1 I decided to go to Genesis 1 and 2 to show how the creation of Man, whom is in the image of God, displays the triune nature of God.

JeremiahsCup, please let me ask you this: would you "suppose" this if you read the Bible and never hear the pulpit story about the Trinity God?

What do you do with text in my post 180?

 

[Jerzy]

I'm not sure what is being said here..can you elaborate?

Please see the texts in post 180.

 

[Jerzy]

THis is The Septuagint version of Isaiah 9:6

For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him.

This conforms with hundreds of the fool-proof texts.

 

[JeremiahsCup]

JeremiahsCup, please let me ask you this: would you "suppose" this if you read the Bible and never hear the pulpit story about the Trinity God?

What do you do with text in my post 180?

I have read the Bible and I have never heard from the pulpit a sermon on the Trinity doctrine. Personally, when I go to church I only really engage in a local Bible Study Group, though I travel quite a bit for work, so even my church attendance of that is lagging.

As it pertains to the triune nature of God, you will find this is biblically based and sound doctrine. Our God is not three gods, there is only One God. Just like man is made in God's image, so too man has the triune nature of God. There is the person of man (reflection of the image of the Father), the man's word (reflection of Lord Jesus whom is God's Living Word), and all men have breath, which is the meaning of the word spirit (reflection of the Holy Spirit of the Living God.) Just like you are one man and your word and your breath are not separate entities from you, it is likewise with God in whose image man was created. Quite ironically or unironically given one's beliefs, mankind is the greatest proof of the existence of God.

This triunity is presented more bluntly and forwardly in the various writings of the New Testament, but it is also well grounded and found in the Old Testament as well. For my part I chose to expound on the creation accounts of Genesis 1 and 2, which I find to be notable in detailing the triune nature of God as the book of Genesis is the foundational book of the Bible of which all the other books are built off of. This shows that Christianity and the doctrine of the trinity are not just something relatively new that was suddenly invented in the centuries following the resurrection of Christ, but is rather the default and ancient view even from the beginning.

In regards to your post #180; I had read it days a go and looked up many of the passages you listed. They appear to be the letterheads or opening addresses of various chapters and letters of the Bible.

 

[Jerzy]

I have read the Bible and I have never heard from the pulpit a sermon on the Trinity doctrine.

As it pertains to the triune nature of God, you will find this is biblically based and sound doctrine.

So the Trinity God is a doctrine not God's Word.

Do you know how and when this doctrine was created?

Well, please read the Athanasian Creed and stop assuming. He clearly states that the Father is God, Jesus is God and the H.S. is God.

Then find out what Athanasius did in 325 and how many times and why he was wanted to be executed.

 

[JeremiahsCup]

So the Trinity God is a doctrine not God's Word.

Do you know how and when this doctrine was created?

Well, please read the Athanasian Creed and stop assuming. He clearly states that the Father is God, Jesus is God and the H.S. is God.

Then find out what Athanasius did in 325 and how many times and why he was wanted to be executed.

Correct, the Trinity is a doctrine about the triune nature of God as described in the Bible. The trinity is not the Word of God because Jesus is the Word of God.

Yes, the doctrine of the Trinity, or the nature of the triune God, is first described in the book of Genesis chapters 1 and 2.

I don't know about the Athanasian Creed and will have to read this later, but yes like you say, the Father, the Word, and the Spirit are God, and this is in a boiled down sense the doctrine of the Trinity as the Bible details.

I will have to look into Athanasius, thank you for the suggestion.

 

[Jerzy]

In regards to your post #180; I had read it days a go and looked up many of the passages you listed. They appear to be the letterheads or opening addresses of various chapters and letters of the Bible.

These are the cardinal statements by Jesus and by the NT writers stating that the Father is the only true God.

 

[Victor1999]

I picked the "don't know" option because I'm not sure if the holy Spirit is a humanlike person as some people insist it must be. It's been called the Spirit of Christ in the Bible, so I don't think it's a completely separate person.

 

[Jerzy]

Correct, the Trinity is a doctrine about the triune nature of God as described in the Bible.

Nope. There is no triune nature of god described in the Bible. Translation of certain verses has been manipulated or assumed to support man made doctrine.

[/QUOTE]The trinity is not the Word of God because Jesus is the Word of God.[/QUOTE]

Nope. The Word of God is the Word of God not Jesus. This is another manipulation of Jn 1:1-3. Please see Isa 55:11, Ps 33:6-9 and particularly 2 Sam 7:12. John has not come up with something out of the blue but referred to the Prophets. You can also see it in Jn 20:17, Re 1:1 and so on.

[/QUOTE]Yes, the doctrine of the Trinity, or the nature of the triune God, is first described in the book of Genesis chapters 1 and 2.[/QUOTE]

Nope. It is the story tellers product.

[/QUOTE]I don't know about the Athanasian Creed and will have to read this later, but yes like you say, the Father, the Word, and the Spirit are God, and this is in a boiled down sense the doctrine of the Trinity as the Bible details.[/QUOTE]

Nope. I didn't say that. I said that one of the Old Catholic Church Fathers said that the Father is God, the Son is God and that the HS is God.

 

[Jerzy]

I picked the "don't know" option because I'm not sure if the holy Spirit is a humanlike person as some people insist it must be. It's been called the Spirit of Christ in the Bible, so I don't think it's a completely separate person.

Nope. In the OT it is called Spirit of God. King David mentions the Holy ( means dedicated) Spirit.
Jesus says that the Holy Spirit comes from the Father.