If the saved that is dead is in heaven ,With GOD ,Why dose the BIBLE say that the dead can not PRAISE the LORD .

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bud62

bud62

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washburn Tn
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I do not believe that they are in Heaven myself ,Neither do I believe that the BIBLE teaches , that they are in Heaven ,
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

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Thank you for this share of reason and product of study.. It takes very study to understand those dead in Messiah will be raised to meet Him in the clouds first then those few remaining will follow, but I am not a teacher. Perhaps someone will come along and twist this.
 
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bojack

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Dec 16, 2019
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The dead are dead to us for sure unless by the name of Jesus you are called back for a little more time in this life, which is normally a rare occurrence .. Trying to contact the dead is a big ''no-no'' imo .. I like the idea of a little uninterrupted sleep until Jesus returns while this worn out body of mine rots back to dust .. I done drove the wheels off of this one ..
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

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bojack said:
The dead are dead to us for sure unless by the name of Jesus you are called back for a little more time in this life, which is normally a rare occurrence .. Trying to contact the dead is a big ''no-no'' imo .. I like the idea of a little uninterrupted sleep until Jesus returns while this worn out body of mine rots back to dust .. I done drove the wheels off of this one ..
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dI am in agreement with your understanding of sleep in the hope of Jesus, Yeshua, not on you wearing out those wheels. All love in Jesus, Yeshua...j
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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bud62 said:
I do not believe that they are in Heaven myself ,Neither do I believe that the BIBLE teaches , that they are in Heaven
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Well then count yourself among the men who are MOST MISERABLE.

As to your title question, the dead could not praise God while they were in Sheol/Hades before the resurrection of Christ. But all the Old Testament saints are indeed now IN HEAVEN, praising and worshiping God.

Obviously you have been influenced by your denomination, but the Bible is freely available to all. So why not put aside your preconceived notions and do a thorough study of the subject of the afterlife as revealed in BOTH the Old and New Testaments?
 
J

John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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bud62 said:
I do not believe that they are in Heaven myself ,Neither do I believe that the BIBLE teaches , that they are in Heaven ,
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Paul states clearly that if we are absent from the body, we are present with the Lord.

2 Corinthians 5
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
 
bud62

bud62

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JaumeJ said:
Thank you for this share of reason and product of study.. It takes very study to understand those dead in Messiah will be raised to meet Him in the clouds first then those few remaining will follow, but I am not a teacher. Perhaps someone will come along and twist this.
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bojack said:
The dead are dead to us for sure unless by the name of Jesus you are called back for a little more time in this life, which is normally a rare occurrence .. Trying to contact the dead is a big ''no-no'' imo .. I like the idea of a little uninterrupted sleep until Jesus returns while this worn out body of mine rots back to dust .. I done drove the wheels off of this one

The real reason that the dead can't praise the LORD , Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they will shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward: for the memory of them is forgotten.
Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished: neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. They don't even have the love for us that they had when they died,
1. This tells us that they can't talk & can't think & can't be talked to you or me or GOD, And can't be called up from the Grave .And only GOD can call them back out of the Grave, nobody else can call them up to talk to them, It is Satan & His evil Angels that people talk to, He wants to deceive GODs people , In thinking that their in Heaven ,or can be talk to , when it's the devil that speaks to them, not them, Saul in the BIBLE Didn't talk to Samuel , It says that Saul preceived that it was Samuel .
This means, that it was not Samuel, but a devil that Saul talk to, He can't praise GOD because he can't talk to GOD,
Job says to GOD, hide me in the Grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me, He can't even remember GOD while he in the Grave .
Psalms 115:17 , The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence, Notice they go down not up,
JESUS dose not bring the saints from HEAVEN when HE comes back, If you believe this, you have been miss lead ,
Read 1 Thessalonians 4:16 AGAIN , For the LORD himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of GOD: This tells us that He comes down by himself . Then when he is in the clouds HE calls the dead up, out of their Graves, out of the earth where they have been dead ,or sleeping to GOD, Only because He can raise the dead , Their [ breath = spirit also]The breath is what go's back to GOD who gave it, not a ghost , They are in the Grave in the earth, The earth is the alter where the saints are, the earth is where the BLOOD was poured out, The altar where the souls of them that had been slain ,REV 6:9 is the earth, GOD bless as HE sees fit
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F

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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#9
bud62 said:
I do not believe that they are in Heaven myself ,Neither do I believe that the BIBLE teaches , that they are in Heaven ,
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Matt 8:22, But Jesus said unto him, follow me, and let the dead bury the dead. How can a dead person bury a dead person? Jesus is talking about the "dead in spirit" burying the literally dead.

The natural man, 1 Cor 2:14, before he has been born again with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, is spiritually dead, and cannot discern the things of the Spirit, and therefore cannot praise the Lord.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

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Jul 2, 2011
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It is true our spirit returns tot he Lord, but when? We are taught this in th ewritings of the resurrection....remember, there must be a resurrection....
 
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MattforJesus

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bud62 said:
I do not believe that they are in Heaven myself ,Neither do I believe that the BIBLE teaches , that they are in Heaven ,
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The Bible says to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

There are souls in heaven with Jesus awaiting the saints on earth to join them that are alive at the end of the great persecution.

They have not received their glorified body yet but are souls in heaven.

In the Old Testament the saints would not be in heaven which the dead know nothing because Jesus did not shed His blood yet and Jesus said no man has ascended to heaven.

When the man Christ Jesus ascended to heaven and His shed blood washes away all sins then there is no reason for the saints to stay in the ground for if the man Christ Jesus can ascend to heaven then all saints can ascend to heaven.

Which Jesus said that when you are saved the kingdom of God is within you so when a saint dies they go to be with Jesus for their sins are completely forgiven where in the Old Testament the sins were only covered by the blood of animals which did not completely take away sins.
 
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MattforJesus

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JaumeJ said:
It is true our spirit returns tot he Lord, but when? We are taught this in th ewritings of the resurrection....remember, there must be a resurrection....
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Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The spirit returns to God after a person dies regardless of whether the person was saved or not so the spirit is not part of anybody in the afterlife.

The soul will live on forever.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

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#13
Jul 2, 2011
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You definitely hae a way of looking at the teachings. All do. Those who have not received the Holy Spirit? As for the breath of our Father Which gives us all life, includign animals, this is true, but those who sleep in the hope of the resurrection sleep until Jesus, yeshua, returns for us.
 
bud62

bud62

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This that Paul says Don't mean what most people think, He is saying that he will go to sleep ,And the next thing that he will remember is when GOD resurrect him out of his Grave, Even if it been 2000 years, It will be like a blink of the eye to him. He tells us that we shall not all sleep , He is asleep In His grave waiting for GOD to raise him out of his Grave,
Acts 2:34 tells us that David has not ascended into Heaven, This alt to help us see that the dead in their graves awaiting
JESUS's return to raise them out of their Graves , 1 THESS 4:16 That JESUS comes down by HIMSELF, Then he raises the dead , And they don't come back to earth with HIM . GOD bless as HE see fit .










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And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Daniel 12:2 They are in the earth not in Heaven
 
bud62

bud62

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MattforJesus said:
Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The spirit returns to God after a person dies regardless of whether the person was saved or not so the spirit is not part of anybody in the afterlife.

The soul will live on forever.
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The SOUl that SINETH it Shall die , GOD dose not lie , They will die. And be no more ,
 
Dino246

Dino246

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#16
Jun 30, 2015
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#16
bud62 said:
The SOUl that SINETH it Shall die , GOD dose not lie , They will die. And be no more ,
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The word is "does", not "dose". "Dose" is a prescribed amount of medication. Thus is your daily dose of correct English. Persisting in error does not serve you well. :)
 
J

John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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#17
bud62 said:
This that Paul says Don't mean what most people think, He is saying that he will go to sleep ,And the next thing that he will remember is when GOD resurrect him out of his Grave, Even if it been 2000 years, It will be like a blink of the eye to him. He tells us that we shall not all sleep , He is asleep In His grave waiting for GOD to raise him out of his Grave,
Acts 2:34 tells us that David has not ascended into Heaven, This alt to help us see that the dead in their graves awaiting
JESUS's return to raise them out of their Graves , 1 THESS 4:16 That JESUS comes down by HIMSELF, Then he raises the dead , And they don't come back to earth with HIM . GOD bless as HE see fit .










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And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Daniel 12:2 They are in the earth not in Heaven
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Why didn’t Paul just say that then? You’re private interpretation is false. Stick with the clear reading of scripture. You add words that change the meaning to fit your theology.

Their bodies are resurrected, not their souls. The Lord brings those souls back with Him to be reunited with their bodies.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Sleep is just another word for dead. These people died being in Christ.
 
bud62

bud62

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John146 said:
Why didn’t Paul just say that then? You’re private interpretation is false. Stick with the clear reading of scripture. You add words that change the meaning to fit your theology.

Their bodies are resurrected, not their souls. The Lord brings those souls back with Him to be reunited with their bodies.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Sleep is just another word for dead. These people died being in Christ.
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I think you are dead wrong , and all of the BIBLE don't line up with what you believe or Paul writings ether.
our beliefs haft to line up with the whole BIBLE , yours don't even come close to it. GOD bless as HE sees fit.YOUR just going to believe what you believe , not caring that it don't line up with the whole BIBLE , I do care ,When the BIBLE don't agree with what we believe in one place, it is because we are not seeing what GOD is saying. AND wrong in what we believe, GODs word is always right.
 
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