Does God keep People from understanding the Bible.

[posthuman]

What a God it would be that would first inspire the Bible and then create a block that insures only His select few can understand it.

what does scripture say?

Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech — unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away. But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
(2 Corinthians 3:12-16) ​

 

[posthuman]

Golly gee, there is something upon which we agree.
Imagine the irony there. God is going to have a book written that is all about the Son that is him, coming to suffer horrifically and lay down his life for the purpose of salvation, but this is only for a select few, the rest of y'all can go kick sand and die of monkeypox for all I care, because y'all ain't nothing but fire kindling.
Because; God so loved a handful of people that he gave his only begotten son so that those few shall have eternal life.
Isn't that a right sharp jab to the gums with a screwdriver.

are we talking about completely blocking all comprehension or are we talking about those who do not have, even what they have being taken away? the carnal mind cannot perceive the things of God because they are discerned only through the Spirit ((re: 1 Cor. 2:14))
it's a fact.
so there is something to the OP question. let's look at it soberly, without prejudice

Isaiah 6:9-10, Isaiah 44:18, John 12:40, Matthew 13:14-15, Mark 8:18, Romans 11:8, Psalm 115:5-8 all speak of this.

 

[posthuman]

As far a scripture goes there is no secret knowledge, it says what it says. I know some say there is secret codes and such in the scriptures. Maybe there is, but if there is they only confirm what is plainly written. Not anything different or contrary for sure. Gnostics and mystics seeking out special hidden codes that provide different secret knowledge are heretics, engaged in idolatry. The true of God's word is plainly written for all to see if they simply read it.

well, i get what you're saying, and largely agree - but.. i don't think the Bible is simple, in the least. there are many things in it that aren't plain. it's the most profound piece of literature in all history; i want to be careful not to mischaracterize it

how many people - even Christians, even those who have read the Bible many times - can capably find and explain how all of it is testifying of Christ? not so many, i think. so there are hidden things in scripture that aren't 'mysticism' or kabbalah or numerology etc, they're the deep things of God, and they're not idolatry, they're the testimony of Christ. some of that is prayerful study, but some of it isn't, i think. wisdom belongs to God, and He gives it to whom He will - i anyone has it, it's a gift from Him. He gives liberally to whoever asks, but we know from scripture itself, He doesn't give all wisdom to all people; how can Solomon be 'the wisest man who ever lived' if God is giving the same measure to all? the case of Solomon implies measure.

i'll give you an example -- over the last week or two, i've heard 15 or 20 sermons from almost as many different preachers from various denominations, all on the topic of Judges 19-21. ask me how many see Christ in the story and preach/teach how He is represented in type and glorified in the narrative? 1. so far, one. that's all. now, i believe the one who is preaching Christ from the scripture is the one who understands what he is reading. so there are the other 95% of the preachers i've listened to so far -- i assume they have prayerfully studied and sought out wisdom about the things they stand behind a pulpit and teach their congregations ((legitimate assumption?)) and them post online so i can find them. why are these other 95% not seeing Christ in the scripture? that question is staring me straight in the face while i read this thread. does the one who is seeing glimpses of Christ even see it all fully and clearly? no, i don't think he does. he said so, himself, too -- and i'm not saying i do, obviously. but that even the wise among the church see now as through a glass, dimly. Paul said that of himself.

you try it. read Judges 19-21 and see if you can find Christ testified of, His person & work glorified by what's written there. what do you see?
i think often a part of people being blinded and veiled when they read the scripture is that they don't even know what they're reading. they're not looking for Him; they don't understand that it's all about Him; they don't ask God to show Himself to them in it. they're looking for something else, like instructions on how to be good, or what works they should do, and what kind of things to detest. they can preach lifetimes about those things, and still be missing the real topic of the scripture, IMO

_________________________________________

 

[rhern]

I agree the Knowledge of God is beyond the Pages of the Bible and like you say there are few who are able to discern this book.

I have an incomplete summary of the 2nd coming of our Lord. Many will disagree and I say show me the passages.

In the 2nd coming, The Lord will be established as King of His Kingdom. The 12 apostles will judge the 12 tribes as Jesus told them Matthew 19:28

people will be call from all over the earth to come and worship the King Zechariah 14:16

And they will come from all over the earth to worship the King.

Isaiah 2 King James Version (KJV)
1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.

2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

Jeremiah 3:17 King James Version (KJV)
17 At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the Lord; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the Lord, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.

As for Christians, we are part of Body of Christ and He is the Head of the Body. Christian are not included with those of the circumcision.

Our destiny is Heaven to be co inheritors with Christ our Lord.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

well, i get what you're saying, and largely agree - but.. i don't think the Bible is simple, in the least. there are many things in it that aren't plain. it's the most profound piece of literature in all history; i want to be careful not to mischaracterize it

how many people - even Christians, even those who have read the Bible many times - can capably find and explain how all of it is testifying of Christ? not so many, i think. so there are hidden things in scripture that aren't 'mysticism' or kabbalah or numerology etc, they're the deep things of God, and they're not idolatry, they're the testimony of Christ. some of that is prayerful study, but some of it isn't, i think. wisdom belongs to God, and He gives it to whom He will - i anyone has it, it's a gift from Him. He gives liberally to whoever asks, but we know from scripture itself, He doesn't give all wisdom to all people; how can Solomon be 'the wisest man who ever lived' if God is giving the same measure to all? the case of Solomon implies measure.

i'll give you an example -- over the last week or two, i've heard 15 or 20 sermons from almost as many different preachers from various denominations, all on the topic of Judges 19-21. ask me how many see Christ in the story and preach/teach how He is represented in type and glorified in the narrative? 1. so far, one. that's all. now, i believe the one who is preaching Christ from the scripture is the one who understands what he is reading. so there are the other 95% of the preachers i've listened to so far -- i assume they have prayerfully studied and sought out wisdom about the things they stand behind a pulpit and teach their congregations ((legitimate assumption?)) and them post online so i can find them. why are these other 95% not seeing Christ in the scripture? that question is staring me straight in the face while i read this thread. does the one who is seeing glimpses of Christ even see it all fully and clearly? no, i don't think he does. he said so, himself, too -- and i'm not saying i do, obviously. but that even the wise among the church see now as through a glass, dimly. Paul said that of himself.

you try it. read Judges 19-21 and see if you can find Christ testified of, His person & work glorified by what's written there. what do you see?
i think often a part of people being blinded and veiled when they read the scripture is that they don't even know what they're reading. they're not looking for Him; they don't understand that it's all about Him; they don't ask God to show Himself to them in it. they're looking for something else, like instructions on how to be good, or what works they should do, and what kind of things to detest. they can preach lifetimes about those things, and still be missing the real topic of the scripture, IMO

_________________________________________

I will read it. I know the story and have some ideas but it's best to read it over.

 

[posthuman]

I will read it. I know the story and have some ideas but it's best to read it over.

The sermon I listened to this morning spoke of it in terms of types of Christ. So that makes 2 out of about 15 preachers so far, yay!

But I think he had a number of things wrong about Sodom and the Levites wife still

 

[Locoponydirtman]

The sermon I listened to this morning spoke of it in terms of types of Christ. So that makes 2 out of about 15 preachers so far, yay!

But I think he had a number of things wrong about Sodom and the Levites wife still

From a cursory reading you have the sin, judgement, and redemption of the Benjamites.
There is more to the story.
The concubine isn't exactly a wife. She may represent the Jews, who run away from God yet he continues to bring her back, but eventually allows wicked strangers to destroy her completely, but not without casting judgement against them but even in the end grants them redemption.
Another possibility would be that God allowed wicked men " The Jews" to kill Christ, but because they do he has them decimated, (see 70 AD) but even after that he redeems a remnant.

I will have to put more study in.

 

[Journeyman]

Does God Keep people from understanding the Bible.

If yes give an example from Scripture.

God chose the means by which people can know the scriptures (....Then your light will dispel the darkness, and your darkness will be transformed into noonday. Isa.58:10)

 

[Deade]

What a God it would be that would first inspire the Bible and then create a block that insures only His select few can understand it. Hearkens back to the Calvinist, TULIP formula. God predestined people to be saved, and die damned.

And yet He said: Matt. 7:13 "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:"

Golly gee, there is something upon which we agree.
Imagine the irony there. God is going to have a book written that is all about the Son that is him, coming to suffer horrifically and lay down his life for the purpose of salvation, but this is only for a select few, the rest of y'all can go kick sand and die of monkeypox for all I care, because y'all ain't nothing but fire kindling.
Because; God so loved a handful of people that he gave his only begotten son so that those few shall have eternal life.
Isn't that a right sharp jab to the gums with a screwdriver.

1 Peter 2:1-10 "Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings, As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious. To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy." Catch that: "were appointed."

 

[Whispered]

And yet He said: Matt. 7:13 "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:"

I'm familiar with the verse, thanks. Would you care to elaborate more in how you think it applies to the part of my posting you excerpted?

 

[Whispered]

God chose the means by which people can know the scriptures (....Then your light will dispel the darkness, and your darkness will be transformed into noonday. Isa.58:10)

The Book of Isaiah chapter 58
True and False Fasting
1.“Cry aloud; do not hold back;
lift up your voice like a trumpet;
declare to my people their transgression,
to the house of Jacob their sins.
2 Yet they seek me daily
and delight to know my ways,
as if they were a nation that did righteousness
and did not forsake the judgment of their God;
they ask of me righteous judgments;
they delight to draw near to God.
3 ‘Why have we fasted, and you see it not?
Why have we humbled ourselves, and you take no knowledge of it?’
Behold, in the day of your fast you seek your own pleasure,[a]
and oppress all your workers.
4 Behold, you fast only to quarrel and to fight
and to hit with a wicked fist.
Fasting like yours this day
will not make your voice to be heard on high.
5 Is such the fast that I choose,
a day for a person to humble himself?
Is it to bow down his head like a reed,
and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him?
Will you call this a fast,
and a day acceptable to the Lord?

6 “Is not this the fast that I choose:
to loose the bonds of wickedness,
to undo the straps of the yoke,
to let the oppressed[b] go free,
and to break every yoke?
7 Is it not to share your bread with the hungry
and bring the homeless poor into your house;
when you see the naked, to cover him,
and not to hide yourself from your own flesh?
8 Then shall your light break forth like the dawn,
and your healing shall spring up speedily;
your righteousness shall go before you;
the glory of the Lord shall be your rear guard.
9 Then you shall call, and the Lord will answer;
you shall cry, and he will say, ‘Here I am.’
If you take away the yoke from your midst,
the pointing of the finger, and speaking wickedness,
10 if you pour yourself out for the hungry
and satisfy the desire of the afflicted,
then shall your light rise in the darkness
and your gloom be as the noonday.
11 And the Lord will guide you continually
and satisfy your desire in scorched places
and make your bones strong;
and you shall be like a watered garden,
like a spring of water,
whose waters do not fail.
12 And your ancient ruins shall be rebuilt;
you shall raise up the foundations of many generations;
you shall be called the repairer of the breach,
the restorer of streets to dwell in.

13 “If you turn back your foot from the Sabbath,
from doing your pleasure[c] on my holy day,
and call the Sabbath a delight
and the holy day of the Lord honorable;
if you honor it, not going your own ways,
or seeking your own pleasure,[d] or talking idly;[e]
14 then you shall take delight in the Lord,
and I will make you ride on the heights of the earth;[f]
I will feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father,
for the mouth of the Lord has spoken.”

Footnotes

1. Isaiah 58:3 Or pursue your own business
2. Isaiah 58:6 Or bruised
3. Isaiah 58:13 Or business
4. Isaiah 58:13 Or pursuing your own business
5. Isaiah 58:13 Hebrew or speaking a word
6. Isaiah 58:14 Or of the land

 

[Locoponydirtman]

And yet He said: Matt. 7:13 "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:"



1 Peter 2:1-10 "Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings, As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious. To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy." Catch that: "were appointed."

Those passages have nothing to do with God keeping them from understanding. That is about their own sinful condition.

 

[rhern]

The only people that will read the bible to try to understand it, are the regenerated children of God, who have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The natural man thinks the things of the Spirit are foolishness, and could not discern it if he tried. But, yes, the Holy Spirit, within them, will not reveal the full meaning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, until they deny themselves (lean not upon their own understanding) Matt 16:24.

I learned this lesson the hard way, due to my pride, and being stubborn. Scriptures, "seemed" to contradict each other to me, and I thought that I was smart enough to figure it out, if I bought a Strong's concordance, and studied hard enough. I tried for 12 years to understand, without any results. When I finally admitted that I was not smart enough, and would have to be content to not understand, it was not too long after, that the Holy Spirit within me, began to reveal a little here, and a little there.

If the Holy Spirit had revealed anything to me, with the mindset that I had those 12 years, I would have taken credit for my entilect, and not given God credit. I believe this fact is why God keeps most of his children from understanding the full knowledge of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

I know exactly how you feel. When I first started reading the Bible I had a lot of trouble understanding.
I still work at it. and I learn a little every day. It take a lifetime and patience. And like you said once I put away my pride , things started happening. That was many years ago.

Thank you for sharing

 

[Deade]

Those passages have nothing to do with God keeping them from understanding. That is about their own sinful condition.

So, you have it all figured out, right? Tell me what you interpret "stumble at the word" might mean? Yes, their condition causes their darkness which in turn causes them not to understand.

I'm familiar with the verse, thanks. Would you care to elaborate more in how you think it applies to the part of my posting you excerpted?

Here is you original sentence: "What a God it would be that would first inspire the Bible and then create a block that insures only His select few can understand it."

I am simply implying that God's first fruits church are a smaller group than most think. I believe that God created the earth and everything within it. He created it and us and He owns all of it--including we humans.

Now, if He owns us, He should have some say on how we live. Indeed, He suggests this in scripture. So if God is really God we are not our own, so let us live rightly that God may have preeminence.

There are some among us that live in darkness and they like the darkness. These are addressed in the first chapter of John: John 1:5 "And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not."

Why did the darkness not understand? Because it did not want to. Those not willing to be obedient to God's word will remain in darkness. But God is not dealing with them at this time, except on a physical level.

 

[Whispered]

what does scripture say?

​

Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech — unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away. But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. ​

(2 Corinthians 3:12-16) ​

And yet the Saint Apostle Paul believed in the Old Testament and lived in observance of the law.

 

[Journeyman]

The Book of Isaiah chapter 58
True and False Fasting
1.“Cry aloud; do not hold back;
lift up your voice like a trumpet;
declare to my people their transgression,
to the house of Jacob their sins.
2 Yet they seek me daily
and delight to know my ways,
as if they were a nation that did righteousness
and did not forsake the judgment of their God;
they ask of me righteous judgments;
they delight to draw near to God.
3 ‘Why have we fasted, and you see it not?
Why have we humbled ourselves, and you take no knowledge of it?’
Behold, in the day of your fast you seek your own pleasure,[a]
and oppress all your workers.
4 Behold, you fast only to quarrel and to fight
and to hit with a wicked fist.
Fasting like yours this day
will not make your voice to be heard on high.
5 Is such the fast that I choose,
a day for a person to humble himself?
Is it to bow down his head like a reed,
and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him?
Will you call this a fast,
and a day acceptable to the Lord?

6 “Is not this the fast that I choose:
to loose the bonds of wickedness,
to undo the straps of the yoke,
to let the oppressed[b] go free,
and to break every yoke?
7 Is it not to share your bread with the hungry
and bring the homeless poor into your house;
when you see the naked, to cover him,
and not to hide yourself from your own flesh?
8 Then shall your light break forth like the dawn,
and your healing shall spring up speedily;
your righteousness shall go before you;
the glory of the Lord shall be your rear guard.
9 Then you shall call, and the Lord will answer;
you shall cry, and he will say, ‘Here I am.’
If you take away the yoke from your midst,
the pointing of the finger, and speaking wickedness,
10 if you pour yourself out for the hungry
and satisfy the desire of the afflicted,
then shall your light rise in the darkness
and your gloom be as the noonday.
11 And the Lord will guide you continually
and satisfy your desire in scorched places
and make your bones strong;
and you shall be like a watered garden,
like a spring of water,
whose waters do not fail.
12 And your ancient ruins shall be rebuilt;
you shall raise up the foundations of many generations;
you shall be called the repairer of the breach,
the restorer of streets to dwell in.

13 “If you turn back your foot from the Sabbath,
from doing your pleasure[c] on my holy day,
and call the Sabbath a delight
and the holy day of the Lord honorable;
if you honor it, not going your own ways,
or seeking your own pleasure,[d] or talking idly;[e]
14 then you shall take delight in the Lord,
and I will make you ride on the heights of the earth;[f]
I will feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father,
for the mouth of the Lord has spoken.”

Footnotes

1. Isaiah 58:3 Or pursue your own business
2. Isaiah 58:6 Or bruised
3. Isaiah 58:13 Or business
4. Isaiah 58:13 Or pursuing your own business
5. Isaiah 58:13 Hebrew or speaking a word
6. Isaiah 58:14 Or of the land

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Isa.8:20

 

[Lanolin]

No He doesnt, actually people keep themselves from undertanding the Bible, you can understand the Bible if you simply pray and ask the author!

also Satan does blind people from understanding, keeps them in darkness etc. remember satan is not God, satan is only 'the god of this world' i.e thinks he's God but he isnt.

But because of Jesus being our light we can all understand the Bible as He is the one who opens scripture to us.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

So, you have it all figured out, right? Tell me what you interpret "stumble at the word" might mean? Yes, their condition causes their darkness which in turn causes them not to understand.





I am simply implying that God's first fruits church are a smaller group than most think. I believe that God created the earth and everything within it. He created it and us and He owns all of it--including we humans.

Now, if He owns us, He should have some say on how we live. Indeed, He suggests this in scripture. So if God is really God we are not our own, so let us live rightly that God may have preeminence.

There are some among us that live in darkness and they like the darkness. These are addressed in the first chapter of John: John 1:5 "And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not."

Why did the darkness not understand? Because it did not want to. Those not willing to be obedient to God's word will remain in darkness. But God is not dealing with them at this time, except on a physical level.

their darkness which in turn causes them not to understand.

 

[posthuman]

And yet the Saint Apostle Paul believed in the Old Testament and lived in observance of the law.

what in the world does Paul believing the testimony of Moses and the prophets have to do with whether God ever blinds hearts or not? the scales fell off of Saul's eyes and he became known as Paul. there is no veil over the apostle's heart.

and Paul fulfilling prophesy that the Jews would bind him, by taking a voluntary oath, does not make Paul 'observing the law of Moses' -- that's frankly a laughable conclusion

 

[rhern]

No He doesnt, actually people keep themselves from undertanding the Bible, you can understand the Bible if you simply pray and ask the author!

also Satan does blind people from understanding, keeps them in darkness etc. remember satan is not God, satan is only 'the god of this world' i.e thinks he's God but he isnt.

But because of Jesus being our light we can all understand the Bible as He is the one who opens scripture to us.

Luke 9:44-45 King James Version (KJV)
44 Let these sayings sink down into your ears: for the Son of man shall be delivered into the hands of men.

45 But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying.


Luke 18
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.

32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:

33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.

34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.