Can One’s Salvation Be Given Up?

[John146]

I remember when I first heard the 'dual gospel/kingdom/not rightly dividing the word' doctrine years ago. Since I was a voracious reader of the Bible I was able to instantly recognize the error of it. The whole counsel of the scriptures reveals the falseness of that misguided doctrine.

Did you ever notice that the disciples had no understanding of Paul’s gospel before the cross, but yet preached the gospel of the kingdom? Did they preach something they themselves did not understand?

Did you ever compare Matthew 24:14 with Colossians 1:5-6?

 

[Aerials1978]

Did you ever notice that the disciples had no understanding of Paul’s gospel before the cross, but yet preached the gospel of the kingdom? Did they preach something they themselves did not understand?

Did you ever compare Matthew 24:14 with Colossians 1:5-6?

Jesus had not died yet. You keep stating the obvious.

 

[John146]

Jesus had not died yet. You keep stating the obvious.

Sooo, if they preached the gospel of the kingdom and had no understanding of Paul’s gospel, then why don’t you understand that it’s not the same message?

 

[Aerials1978]

I personally have learned a lot of new things by listening to people talk about things and view points outside of my doctrinal box. This just ain't one of them. It's too easily debunked by the scriptures themselves.

It’s essentially preaching two different Gospels. It’s like saying Jesus is two different Saviors. It’s totally erroneous and very easily debunked.

 

[Aerials1978]

Sooo, if they preached the gospel of the kingdom and had no understanding of Paul’s gospel, then why don’t you understand that it’s not the same message?

So what is the salvation for the Jews? What is salvation for the Gentiles? If a Jew dies believing Jesus is Lord does he go to Heaven or does he go to Sheol and await the physical Kingdom?

 

[Aerials1978]

Sooo, if they preached the gospel of the kingdom and had no understanding of Paul’s gospel, then why don’t you understand that it’s not the same message?

Has it occurred to you by and large most Christians reject this doctrine? Wouldn’t that give you pause to the think maybe its not true?

 

[John146]

It’s essentially preaching two different Gospels. It’s like saying Jesus is two different Saviors. It’s totally erroneous and very easily debunked.

The gospel of the kingdom is a physical salvation of the Jews from their enemies. Paul’s gospel is a spiritual salvation of the soul to eternal life.

Zacharias knew this.

Luke 1
67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,
68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

 

[John146]

So what is the salvation for the Jews? What is salvation for the Gentiles? If a Jew dies believing Jesus is Lord does he go to Heaven or does he go to Sheol and await the physical Kingdom?

Paradise, Abraham’s bosom, has been translated up to the third heaven. In the Church age, a Jew must believe the same as a Gentile, to trust the shed blood of Jesus for sins.

 

[Aerials1978]

The gospel of the kingdom is a physical salvation of the Jews from their enemies. Paul’s gospel is a spiritual salvation of the soul to eternal life.

Zacharias knew this.

Luke 1
67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,
68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

And? We already established that Jesus spoke to Jews. Scripture had to fulfilled. Again you’re stating the obviously but coming to an incorrect conclusion.

 

[Judges1318]

I’m truly astounded at all the pseudo doctrine that is presented on a Christian forum. It’s actually quite sad.

It does seem to be a hotbed for fringe doctrines.
At least he has been polite and gentlemanly.
And as I say, I have learned from other people's doctrines.
There may be a nugget or two in what he says that will cause you to reevaluate your own doctrinal thoughts about something, and you will study it, contemplate it and accommodate whatever truth is in it, no matter how small that may be. My present doctrinal positions have all been influenced that way.

 

[Aerials1978]

Paradise, Abraham’s bosom, has been translated up to the third heaven. In the Church age, a Jew must believe the same as a Gentile, to trust the shed blood of Jesus for sins.

So a Jew wouldn’t be with Christ?

 

[John146]

Has it occurred to you by and large most Christians reject this doctrine? Wouldn’t that give you pause to the think maybe its not true?

For over 1500 years, Christian doctrine was in the hands of the RCC. And when does the majority ever determine doctrine? You can bet if the majority rules, it’s probably false. Heck, the majority can’t even agree on salvation.

 

[John146]

And? We already established that Jesus spoke to Jews. Scripture had to fulfilled. Again you’re stating the obviously but coming to an incorrect conclusion.

So the gospel of the kingdom must be different than the gospel of Jesus Christ. How can you not see this? Seriously

 

[Aerials1978]

It does seem to be a hotbed for fringe doctrines.
At least he has been polite and gentlemanly.
And as I say, I have learned from other people's doctrines.
There may be a nugget or two in what he says that will cause you to reevaluate your own doctrinal thoughts about something, and you will study it, contemplate it and accommodate whatever truth is in it, no matter how small that may be. My present doctrinal positions have all been influenced that way.

Most of the conversations have been cordial. There are exceptions. For instance the poster the pretty much said that I was in league with Satan.

 

[John146]

So a Jew wouldn’t be with Christ?

A Jew before the cross? Only if their faith was demonstrated through their obedience. A Jew today lives by faith only.

 

[Aerials1978]

For over 1500 years, Christian doctrine was in the hands of the RCC. And when does the majority ever determine doctrine? You can bet if the majority rules, it’s probably false. Heck, the majority can’t even agree on salvation.

While I agree the RCC was the entrenched power, even they didn’t say there are two different Gospels. Like I said, it’s never been part of Christian theism as a whole.

 

[John146]

While I agree the RCC was the entrenched power, even they didn’t say there are two different Gospels. Like I said, it’s never been part of Christian theism as a whole.

Of course not. They don’t read and study the Bible.

I’m not claiming two different ways to eternal salvation. Please don’t misunderstand me. Only one way to everlasting life and that’s through the shed blood of Jesus Christ. Amen?

 

[Judges1318]

Did you ever notice that the disciples had no understanding of Paul’s gospel before the cross, but yet preached the gospel of the kingdom? Did they preach something they themselves did not understand?

They preached the forgiveness of sin.
It's still about that today.
It has always been about that.
The revelation of the last days is this forgiveness of sin comes, specifically, through the Sacrifice of Christ.

Did you ever compare Matthew 24:14 with Colossians 1:5-6?

No.
I will, though.
I'll be back later.

 

[Aerials1978]

So the gospel of the kingdom must be different than the gospel of Jesus Christ. How can you not see this? Seriously

So because Jewish scripture had to be fulfilled, that was proof of a different Gospel? What you’re really saying is there two truths.

 

[John146]

So because Jewish scripture had to be fulfilled, that was proof of a different Gospel? What you’re really saying is there two truths.

The messages are clearly different. Paul was given an abundance of revelations of things never made known before.