Can One’s Salvation Be Given Up?

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Nov 16, 2019
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Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

We can grieve the Holy Spirit by walking after the flesh, but we remain sealed.
Of course you can.
But you can't remain sealed when you are in unbelief.

There's a big difference between the sinning saint, and the former saint who has departed in unbelief.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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So Jews don't need this sign now?
I will agree that miraculous healing is seen more among unbelievers than among the people of God, and for the purpose of testifying to them the reality of God, Christ, and the gospel. Ironically, they usually have more faith in God than believers, lol. Believers seem to have resigned themselves to not receiving help from God. Doctrines of cessationism sure don't help that, now does it?
Nope. Their minds have been blinded during the Church age.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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Of course you can.
But you can't remain sealed when you are in unbelief.

There's a big difference between the sinning saint, and the former saint who has departed in unbelief.
2 Timothy 2
12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: suffering persecution gains us the right to reign with the Lord on earth for a thousand years. If we deny Him because we don’t want to suffer persecution, He will deny us the privilege to reign with Him.
13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. If one does not believe, Jesus remains faithful to His promise, for the one is in Him, He cannot deny those who are in Him.
14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
 
Nov 16, 2019
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Nope. Their minds have been blinded during the Church age.
I've known several lovely, genuinely saved blood Jews.
You're not wasting your time entirely if you witness to a Jew.
God has ALWAYS had a remnant in Israel.
You may be the instrument through which God brings them to himself.
Maybe even by praying for them to be healed of some physical ailment!
God, give us the courage to find out!
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
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Paul lost the gift of healing. It was only given as a sign to Jews to believe the message. After their rejection, the sign gifts would cease. Gentiles walk by faith not by sight.
Seriously, where do you come with this nonsense?
 
Nov 16, 2019
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2 Timothy 2
12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: suffering persecution gains us the right to reign with the Lord on earth for a thousand years. If we deny Him because we don’t want to suffer persecution, He will deny us the privilege to reign with Him.
13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. If one does not believe, Jesus remains faithful to His promise, for the one is in Him, He cannot deny those who are in Him.
14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
No, seriously.
Unbelievers are not saved.
Twenty-five years ago it was inconceivable to even be having this debate.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,109
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I've known several lovely, genuinely saved blood Jews.
You're wasting your time entirely if you witness to a Jew.
God has ALWAYS had a remnant in Israel.
You may be the instrument through which God brings them to himself.
Maybe even by praying for them to be healed of some physical ailment!
God, give us the courage to find out!
Yes, a remnant, but as a whole, the nation of Israel has rejected Jesus Christ.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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Seriously, where do you come with this nonsense?
The KJV! Do I really need to post all the scriptures where God conditioned Israel to believe His word through signs?
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
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The KJV! Do I really need to post all the scriptures where God conditioned Israel to believe His word through signs?
I’m truly astounded at all the pseudo doctrine that is presented on a Christian forum. It’s actually quite sad.
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
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I've come to the conclusion it's simply a matter of forming doctrine from a purely natural point of view.
Very well could be. Also, it could be a case of mixing Biblical scripture with external sources.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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I’m truly astounded at all the pseudo doctrine that is presented on a Christian forum. It’s actually quite sad.
Anything that doesn’t line up with your beliefs, right? You could never be wrong or haven’t heard something before that’s valid.
 
Nov 16, 2019
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What does verse 13 say?
He is still faithful to us even if we are faithless to him.


12if we endure,

we will also reign with Him;

if we deny Him,

He will also deny us;

13if we are faithless,

He remains faithful,

for He cannot deny Himself.

2 Timothy 2:12-13


What you are ignoring is there has to be a difference between 'being faithless' and 'denying him'.
He will deny you if you deny him. But he will not deny you if you are faithless.
That tells you right there that denying him and being faithless aren't the same thing.

Follow this closely:
How can Paul say 'denying him' means not being able to reign with him, and then turn right around and say Christ can not deny us?
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
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Anything that doesn’t line up with your beliefs, right? You could never be wrong or haven’t heard something before that’s valid.
Oh stop. That whole “Your belief” drivel has exited the building. You’re essentially denying the heart of Christian theism which has stood for nearly 2000 years. It’s bordering on Hersey.
 
Nov 16, 2019
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Anything that doesn’t line up with your beliefs, right? You could never be wrong or haven’t heard something before that’s valid.
I remember when I first heard the 'dual gospel/kingdom/not rightly dividing the word' doctrine years ago. Since I was a voracious reader of the Bible I was able to instantly recognize the error of it. The whole counsel of the scriptures reveals the falseness of that misguided doctrine.
 
Nov 16, 2019
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Anything that doesn’t line up with your beliefs, right? You could never be wrong or haven’t heard something before that’s valid.
I personally have learned a lot of new things by listening to people talk about things and view points outside of my doctrinal box. This just ain't one of them. It's too easily debunked by the scriptures themselves.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,109
3,686
113
He is still faithful to us even if we are faithless to him.


12if we endure,

we will also reign with Him;

if we deny Him,

He will also deny us;

13if we are faithless,

He remains faithful,

for He cannot deny Himself.

2 Timothy 2:12-13

What you are ignoring is there has to be a difference between 'being faithless' and 'denying him'.
He will deny you if you deny him. But he will not deny you if you are faithless.
That tells you right there that denying him and being faithless aren't the same thing.

Follow this closely:
How can Paul say 'denying him' means not being able to reign with him, and then turn right around and say Christ can not deny us?
If we endure what? This endurance of suffering earns the believer’s right to reign with Him. That’s the context of verse 12.

If we believe not, it doesn’t make us not in Christ. Christ cannot deny those who are in Him.