Is the doctrine of limited atonement biblical?

[UnitedWithChrist]

When one does this and then tries to convince others to do likewise, he becomes a wolf in sheep's clothing. Not my words, but those of the Good Book.

Does what?

Gives God all the credit for anyone's salvation?

Rather than encouraging them to boast in themselves, and their alleged autonomous free-will decision that somehow changes its own heart so it responded in faith and repentance?

That's exactly what you're trying to get people to believe.

God is not pleased with glory-hogs.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

That much is true.




All men can choose to repent and accept at any time. This is the Gospel message. Miss this, and you have missed everything. Hell is reserved for anyone who teaches otherwise. Consider yourself warned.

Notice how incoherent the religionist's view of salvation is:


2 Timothy 2:24-26 24 And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, 25 correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, 26 and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.
(ESV)

So, in essence, what he claims is that the person is able, at any time, to come to faith and repentance without any help from God.

FALSE.

God GRANTS repentance. It is not something that the sinner generates himself from his stony heart. It is a GIFT.

And sinners are CAPTURED in a snare of the devil. They can't get out. In fact, they don't WANT to get out, because they have a heart of stone, and need a heart of flesh that can produce faith and repentance. They are enslaved. They have to be freed.

By the way, once you start reading the Bible this way, you see the coherency of the Reformed position. It is OBVIOUS that God must provide a heart of flesh to replace the heart of stone, in order to be released from the bondage of sin.

Religionists simply will refuse to admit this, because after two or three centuries of error free-willer theology has become the dominant view in American evangelical Christianity, largely due to groups like charismatics, Pentecostals, Methodists, and General Baptists who all teach it.

 

[Grandpa]

That much is true.




All men can choose to repent and accept at any time. This is the Gospel message. Miss this, and you have missed everything. Hell is reserved for anyone who teaches otherwise. Consider yourself warned.

If men can choose to repent and "accept" at any time isn't that at odds with what scripture says in Ephesians 2?

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


You didn't get saved because you decided to repent. Otherwise, the not of yourselves couldn't be stated.

You didn't get saved because you chose. Otherwise, the not of yourselves is an error.

People get saved because God chose them to be saved. They are His Workmanship. No one can boast because of their superior understanding or strength because it didn't come from them, it came from God.

 

[John146]

Notice how incoherent the religionist's view of salvation is:


2 Timothy 2:24-26 24 And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, 25 correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, 26 and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.
(ESV)

So, in essence, what he claims is that the person is able, at any time, to come to faith and repentance without any help from God.

FALSE.

God GRANTS repentance. It is not something that the sinner generates himself from his stony heart. It is a GIFT.

And sinners are CAPTURED in a snare of the devil. They can't get out. In fact, they don't WANT to get out, because they have a heart of stone, and need a heart of flesh that can produce faith and repentance. They are enslaved. They have to be freed.

By the way, once you start reading the Bible this way, you see the coherency of the Reformed position. It is OBVIOUS that God must provide a heart of flesh to replace the heart of stone, in order to be released from the bondage of sin.

Religionists simply will refuse to admit this, because after two or three centuries of error free-willer theology has become the dominant view in American evangelical Christianity, largely due to groups like charismatics, Pentecostals, Methodists, and General Baptists who all teach it.

2 Timothy 2
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

We are to teach with gentleness those who oppose themselves. They are believers but have gone astray. Through the instruction of the word, we can help them turn and repent. God gives them repentance through the teaching of His word. These people are not unbelievers.

 

[oyster67]

encouraging them to boast in themselves,

You have really fallen off the wagon with that one.

and their alleged autonomous free-will decision that somehow changes its own heart

Yes, we must choose to allow the Lord to come in and make us New Creatures in Christ. Please do this today so He can give you light.

 

[SUNDOWNSAM]

Yes he is not willing that any of the "all" perish. The key in understanding which "all" is in view it is found in the words; "as many as" .Not one more or one less.

As many as the father gave the Son. They alone can come because the father alone is drawing them .Of man own volition no man could come. Not one

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. Romans3:10-11

Impossible to seek with no understanding.

The bible defines the elect as many as

Acts 13:48And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Matthew 14:36 And besought him that they might only touch the hem of his garment: and as many as touched were made perfectly whole.

Matthew 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

John 8:30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.

The horse before the cart .Free will!

Acts 2:39

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

----------------------------

So, from what you wrote am I correct to say that you believe in the elect doctrine, the he elect with free will to choose because you are not really making yourself clear.

Acts 17:1, Paul was preaching to "a synagogue" (Strong's #4864=a christian church) of the Jews. These men that Paul was speaking to, were already regenerated and given the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. They had a lack of knowledge of the full gospel. Jesus instructed his Apostles to go and preach to the "lost sheep" (regenerated children) of the house Jacob/Israel.

God changed Jacob's name to be called Israel, Gen 33:28. Jacob is representative of God's elect, Rom 9:11. There is the nation of Israel, and there is Jacob/Israel, which is all of the elect of God.

If we try to explain the things of the Spirit to the natural man, 1 Cor 2:14, it would fall on deaf ears, because the natural man thinks that the things of the Spirit is foolishness. Only those who have ears to hear will understand the things of the Spirit, and they are God's regenerated sheep. John 10:27-28.

_________________________________________

There are three Hebrew synonyms for synagogue: bet ha-tefilla (“house of prayer”), bet ha-kneset (“house of assembly”), and bet ha-midrash (“house of study”). The strong defines the synagogue as "a bringing together, an assembling, a synagogue" and the usage is : "an assembly, congregation, synagogue, either the place or the people gathered together in the place". In other words a synagogue is a place where people gather together. The term synagogue is of Greek origin (synagein, “to bring together”) and means “a place of assembly.” The name was synagogue was transferred to church that was the Greeks doing. It appears that you are trying to separate Jewish believers from anything that is Jewish and this is how the removing of the Sabbath separate Jews from Christians.

Yeshua told Nicodemus, except ye be born again, the strong word is difined as a certain one, someone, anyone and you chose a certain one to fit your distorted view.

It is safe to say that regenerated can imply born-again. Man fell from the grace of God and God gave the promise to reconciled man to himself. If one is to believe your distorted then no Gentile should be elected, because God chosen the Jews.

You still have not responded to my question, how do you know that you are one of the elects?

 

[oyster67]

People get saved because God chose them to be saved.

This is not the Gospel. This is Calvinism.

 

[oyster67]

Few are chosen because few will listen.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

You have really fallen off the wagon with that one.



Yes, we must choose to allow the Lord to come in and make us New Creatures in Christ. Please do this today so He can give you light.

This is an endless merry go-round.

You declare me to be unsaved, I chide you for your religionism and tradition-based beliefs.

It is incoherent to claim that fallen man must produce faith and repentance with a stony heart, to receive a heart of flesh. He needs the heart of flesh to respond to God in faith and repentance.

And, there is no boasting about salvation because of this. Both faith and repentance are gifts from God.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

This is not the Gospel. This is Calvinism.

It's what the Bible teaches.

Anyone who can read knows it.

No person on this website has successfully exegeted 1 Cor 1:26ff from a free-willer perspective.

They won't even touch it because they know it teaches God chooses, and not only does he choose, he mostly picks individuals who are weak so his strength can be shown more clearly.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

2 Timothy 2
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

We are to teach with gentleness those who oppose themselves. They are believers but have gone astray. Through the instruction of the word, we can help them turn and repent. God gives them repentance through the teaching of His word. These people are not unbelievers.

Prove it.

There's nothing contextually that proves it.

By the way, if believers can be snared by Satan again, then certainly unbelievers are.

We know that Satan has deceived the whole world (Rev 12:9).

 

[garee]

well that's the reason I respond

more people just read the posts than actually participate

Calvin did not preach the God we learn of in scripture. he created a god as mean and self serving as was he and since he thought it right to kill people who did not agree with him, it seems certain people who follow him also show disdain to others since actual murder is frowned upon

it really is their problem

Calvin is dead.

Satan is the murderer from the beginning. Murdered Abel, the first martyr.

God does not murder. His written law kills. It therefore must be mixed with the "law of faith", the unseen workings of God. . . in order to make it "one" perfect law that can quicken a man's soul giving him the understanding needed to seek after God.

Psalm 19:7 The law of the Lord is "perfect," converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is "sure", making wise the simple.

It would seem Calvin trusted in all things written in the law and the prophets. (sola scriptura) It did the reforming work needed destroying the law of the fathers.. Same kind of work that King Josiah performed. Removing the oral traditions of men. A picture of Philippians 2:12-13 . God working in us with us to both lovingly will and do His good pleasure. The Christian's "free will" . Freed from the bondage of sin turned to do the will of the loving father.

2 Kings 23:24Moreover the workers with familiar spirits, and the wizards, and the images, and the idols, and all the abominations that were spied in the land of Judah and in Jerusalem, did Josiah put away, that he might perform the words of the law which were written in the book that Hilkiah the priest found in the house of the Lord.

 

[SUNDOWNSAM]

Evidently, you did not read Psalms 53:2-3, or if you did read it, you fail to understand it. God did give mankind a free choice to choose him, but mankind choose not to seek him.

Some bible students choose not to consider having all the scriptures to harmonize. If you disagree with the scriptures that I have given, then give me the scriptures that you think will refute my interpretation, and still harmonize with the scriptures that I have given you.

I feel very confident that I am one of God's elect, in the fact, that I do not fit the description of the natural in 1 Cor 2:14, that has not been regenerated and thinks that the things of the Spirit are foolishness.

I also feel confident that everyone participating on this forum is also of the elect of God.

__________________________-

No, I did not fail to understand Psalms 53:2,3, what I do understand is that you are using that passage of he Scriptures to fit your distorted view. No man seeks God, no not one, God appears to Abraham quickening his spirit, but it was Abraham choice whether he wanted to serve God or not.

When God created man he did not give man a choice because if God gave man a choice he could not hold man responsible for his fall. He gave man a command and a warning and man from the being chose whether he wanted to be obedient God or disobedient. In the same manner, the Spirit of God quickens us, presenting to us life with a warning, man decided if he wants to be obedient and serve God.

I do not go into the Scriptures trying to interpret the word of God, God was clear when he first spoke. Let me warn you that if you go into the Scriptures trying to interpret the word of God, you will distort the word of God.

Amazing, you feel confident that you are one of God's elect, that is not an answer to my question, I ask how do you know you are an elect? Anyone can feel confident and a belief or conviction that an outcome will be favorable does not mean that it will come to pass. See you are not too sure, but I am SURE that I am redeemed and I will live everlasting with my God.

Sad that you are serving God and not sure if you are saved, really sad.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Few are chosen because few will listen.

Notice how incoherent this is.

You claim that a person chooses themselves by listening, basically.

This is the real problem..the free-willer position is simply incoherent. Their teaching is that you choose yourself, basically.

LOL

The more sophisticated version is that God chooses you based on his foreknowledge of your decision..which is only a slightly more complex argument than this one.

I would have used 1 Cor 1:26ff instead of John 15:16, but this meme is still appropriate.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Does what?

Gives God all the credit for anyone's salvation?

Rather than encouraging them to boast in themselves, and their alleged autonomous free-will decision that somehow changes its own heart so it responded in faith and repentance?

That's exactly what you're trying to get people to believe.

God is not pleased with glory-hogs.

preaching a false gospel is what I posted about and what he is referring to

and you know full well

you conflate issues, misuse scripture AND twist what others post

so typical of following the late false teacher Calvin

you are a slave to your beliefs in Calvin

Jesus came to throw off the false burdens of man's religion but it appears some just cannot follow someone they cannot see and must resort to following even a dead man who got most of it wrong

God is not pleased with your false Calvin gospel

 

[garee]

It's what the Bible teaches.

Anyone who can read knows it.

No person on this website has successfully exegeted 1 Cor 1:26ff from a free-willer perspective.

They won't even touch it because they know it teaches God chooses, and not only does he choose, he mostly picks individuals who are weak so his strength can be shown more clearly.

Yes we are strengthened by His Spirit that dwells in these bodies of death. Philippians would be a good foundation . Chapter 1:6 speaks of the manner of salvation. as our confidence .Informing us if Christ has begun the good work he will finish it. And in the next chapter shows that work being worked out as some of the effects. . . . murmurings and disputing, moaners and complainers

Philippians 2:13-14 King James Version (KJV) For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

Do all things without murmurings and disputing Or "believe" without complaining

It could be those who murmur as those who have forgotten the promise of the better things or best thing that accompanies salvation. (Hebrews 6) God bringing to our memory a promise that he will not forget the good works we offer towards his name. They should be careful how they murmur .They could be like the to others in Hebrews 6 that crucify Christ over and over as if one demonstration was not enough.

They would be like the many in Mathew 7 that performed wonderful works but in their own name .God never knew them

Salivation . . One penny not one red cent more.

And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house, Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day. But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny? Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee. Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen. Mathew 20:11-16

 

[garee]

preaching a false gospel is what I posted about and what he is referring to

and you know full well

you conflate issues, misuse scripture AND twist what others post

so typical of following the late false teacher Calvin

you are a slave to your beliefs in Calvin

Jesus came to throw off the false burdens of man's religion but it appears some just cannot follow someone they cannot see and must resort to following even a dead man who got most of it wrong

God is not pleased with your false Calvin gospel

Calvin is dead . Catholics practice necromancy.

We should start in the beginning. What makes up the Good News called the Gospel. Where is it defined ?What kind of work does it perform ? Who is the first person it worked in? Was Abel the one that God first had favor on? ?

 

[John146]

Prove it.

There's nothing contextually that proves it.

By the way, if believers can be snared by Satan again, then certainly unbelievers are.

We know that Satan has deceived the whole world (Rev 12:9).

These are believers that oppose themselves. Unbelievers don't oppose themselves.

It is entirely possible for the devil to get permission to control great parts of our lives (Job 1:12). Hymenaeus, who is mentioned in verse 17, was turned over to Satan for the destruction of verse 25. An individual who is locked into iniquity is really opposed to themselves. Without daily instruction from God's Word the snare is impossible to escape. He can recover the useless time in the past (Joel 2:25), but it is not an easy task.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

This is an endless merry go-round.

You declare me to be unsaved, I chide you for your religionism and tradition-based beliefs.

It is incoherent to claim that fallen man must produce faith and repentance with a stony heart, to receive a heart of flesh. He needs the heart of flesh to respond to God in faith and repentance.

And, there is no boasting about salvation because of this. Both faith and repentance are gifts from God.

right

so why do you persist in posting like that in an op you did not start?

if people are interested in your Calvinism, they can go to one of the many threads you started in the hopes of preaching to an audience here who apparently do not care about it

 

[7seasrekeyed]

It's what the Bible teaches.

Anyone who can read knows it.

No person on this website has successfully exegeted 1 Cor 1:26ff from a free-willer perspective.

They won't even touch it because they know it teaches God chooses, and not only does he choose, he mostly picks individuals who are weak so his strength can be shown more clearly.

right

trot on over to your threads and maybe someone will show up

Calvinism is NOT the gospel

it is regurgitated doctrine from a person who did not understand the gospel

Prove it.

we have multiple times in every single one of your mulitple threads