Are you a Trinitarian, and if so, can you defend the doctrine?

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Are you a Trinitarian, and can you defend the doctrine?

  • Yes, I am a Trinitarian, and I can defend the doctrine.

    Votes: 37 63.8%
  • Yes, I am a Trinitarian, but I cannot defend the doctrine.

    Votes: 2 3.4%
  • No, I deny the doctrine of the Trinity.

    Votes: 16 27.6%
  • I don't know if the Trinity is true or false.

    Votes: 3 5.2%

  • Total voters
    58

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
2,055
1,524
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#41
The Father eternally begets the Son and the Holy Spirit eternally proceeds from them.
eternally begets? uhh. thats not possible. i think the beget there means Jesus was born in the flesh 1st century. not about Jesus being born in eternity thats impossible. eternity means you arent born or begotten.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
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#42
what do you believe exactly? is Jesus God or not? do you believe like JW that He is a created son so its like a ""mini god"? or like socinianism that Jesus is just a glorified human.
The Father/Son/Holy spirit are authorities of one God (one person). As Isaiah put it:

Isa 9:
6For unto us a child is born,
unto us a son is given,
and the government will be upon His shoulders.
And He will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Name (called) = Authority, so the authorities of these child will be:

Father = Father
Son = Son
Wonderful Counselor = Holy spirit

And there's other evidences including in the book of John
 
Jan 17, 2020
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#44
eternally begets? uhh. thats not possible. i think the beget there means Jesus was born in the flesh 1st century. not about Jesus being born in eternity thats impossible. eternity means you arent born or begotten.
God has no beginning or end. So eternally begets = sustains.
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
2,055
1,524
113
#46
The Father/Son/Holy spirit are authorities of one God (one person). As Isaiah put it:

Isa 9:
6For unto us a child is born,
unto us a son is given,
and the government will be upon His shoulders.
And He will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Name (called) = Authority, so the authorities of these child will be:

Father = Father
Son = Son
Wonderful Counselor = Holy spirit

And there's other evidences including in the book of John
thats what i believe too. do you agree with my Son (flesh) Father(soul) Holy Spirit (spirit) we are created in God's image. and we are one human right but consist of those three parts. its also says FULLNESS of Godhead dwells bodily in Jesus so its all.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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#47
THE SYMBOL OF CHALCEDON One of the early Chreeds on the trinity

The Symbol of Chalcedon, adopted at the fourth and fifth sessions of the Fourth Ecumenical Council, dates back to 451 A.D.. Philip Schaff, in his Creeds of Christendom, writes of the Symbol (or Creed) of Chalcedon, “While the first Council of Nicaea had established the eternal, pre-existent Godhead of Christ, the Symbol of the Fourth Ecumenical Council relates to the incarnate Logos, as he walked upon earth and sits on the right hand of the Father. It is directed against the errors of Nestorius and Eutyches, who agreed with the Nicene Creed as opposed to Arianism, but put the Godhead of Christ in a false relation to his humanity.”3


We, then, following the holy Fathers, all with one consent, teach men to confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, the same perfect in Godhead and also perfect in manhood; truly God and truly man, of a reasonable [rational] soul and body; consubstantial [coessential] with us according to the manhood; in all things like unto us, without sin; begotten before all ages of the Father according to the Godhead, and in these latter days, for us and for our salvation, born of the Virgin Mary, the mother of God, according to the Manhood; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures, inconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one person and one Subsistence, not parted or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son, and only begotten, God the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ, as the prophets from the beginning [have declared] concerning him, and the Lord Jesus Christ himself has taught us, and the Creed of the holy Fathers has handed down to us.



Historic Creeds and Confessions. (1997). (electronic ed.). Oak Harbor: Lexham Press.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#48
God has no beginning or end. So eternally begets = sustains.
Why would others need sustenance at some point in time if they are co-eternal?
 
Jan 17, 2020
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#50
Why would others need sustenance at some point in time if they are co-eternal?
God is eternal and he sustains himself as three persons. Life is in God.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#51
Can you see the trinity in the few scriptures I posted for you? How did you do?
No. Trinity is your way of explaining those scriptures, i have my way of explaining them, but three distinct persons in one being is not an explanation to me.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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#52
No. Trinity is your way of explaining those scriptures, i have my way of explaining them, but three distinct persons in one being is not an explanation to me.
If you cannot see it there, we are wasting our time trying to see it elsewhere.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
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#53
thats what i believe too. do you agree with my Son (flesh) Father(soul) Holy Spirit (spirit) we are created in God's image. and we are one human right but consist of those three parts. its also says FULLNESS of Godhead dwells bodily in Jesus so its all.
I simply see it as one God who came down as a human to demonstrate sonship (a surbodinate authority to that of God), so being a surbodinate, He submits to the authority of God which is now the Father while the Holy spirit is the understanding between these two authorities.

In Malachi 3/ Isa 40/ Mark 1- we are able to see how God sent Himself to earth yet we know that the Father sent the son

Isa 40:
3A voice of one calling:
“Prepare the way for the LORD in the wilderness;
make a straight highway for our God in the desert.

Mal 3:1“Behold, I will send My messenger, who will prepare the way before Me.a Then the Lord whom you seek will suddenly come to His temple—the Messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight—see, He is coming,” says the LORD of Hosts.

Mark 1:
1This is the beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.a 2As it is written in Isaiah the prophetb :
“Behold, I will send My messenger ahead of You,
who will prepare Your way.”c

3“A voice of one calling in the wilderness,
‘Prepare the way for the Lord,
make straight paths for Him.’”d

4John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. 5People went out to him from all of Jerusalem and the countryside of Judea. Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River.

6John was clothed in camel’s hair, with a leather belt around his waist. His food was locusts and wild honey. 7And he began to proclaim: “After me will come One more powerful than I, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down and untie. 8I baptize you with water,e but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.f
9In those days Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan.

It is clear from Malachi that God sends Himself but as soon as He comes to earth, the title changes to that of 'the messenger of the covenant'. So, as much as we know the Father sent the son, it is also shown that God sends Himself as a person and that the authorities change with circumstances.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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#56
See what? Three persons in one being? I can't see that.
You do not know what to look for. Try to see the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit represented in each post. Once you see it, it's easy to see it everywhere in scripture. Especially John's gospel.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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#57
Let me ask you one question:

Is Jesus one person, one being and one God by Himself?
Jesus Christ = YHWH in the OT. It is God's name in both testaments. He is eternal not having beginning or end. In Christ the man dwells the eternal Trinity who speaks in the person of the eternal Son through the body he took on through Mary, called Jesus Christ the Son of Man.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#58
You do not know what to look for. Try to see the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit represented in each post. Once you see it, it's easy to see it everywhere in scripture. Especially John's gospel.
In John's gospel, we see destruction of the trinity notion too:

John 14: 16And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocatef to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you do know Him, for He abides with you and will be in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19In a little while, the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you also will live.

John 16: 7But I tell you the truth, it is for your benefit that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocatea will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.


The understanding.
1. The advocate (Holy spirit) was already there with the disciples because Jesus says they know Him and He abides with them
2. Unless Jesus goes, the advocate who was already there with them, will not come in them
3. Jesus does leave them as orphans, He returns to them shortly

Why is it difficult to note that Jesus is claiming to be the advocate here; He is there with them and they know Him but He must go and come back in a different form to indwell them.
Why is Jesus talking like this if indeed Him and the holy spirit are two distinct persons?
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#59
Jesus Christ = YHWH in the OT. It is God's name in both testaments. He is eternal not having beginning or end. In Christ the man dwells the eternal Trinity who speaks in the person of the eternal Son through the body he took on through Mary, called Jesus Christ the Son of Man.
Are you trying to describe Jesus as three persons, one being? Jesus was just one person and one being.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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#60
Are you trying to describe Jesus as three persons, one being? Jesus was just one person and one being.
Jesus the man spoke through the second person of the Trinity. The eternal Son of God.

“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.” Colossians 2:9 (KJV 1900)