Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
GandalfTheWhite

GandalfTheWhite

Senior Member
#125,361
Jan 25, 2015
9,225
3,204
113
#125,361
Melach said:
melach "sober sherlock" holmes has this question to ask: as an abstinent person with a very :sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep: life. i want to ask when people say "moderate drinker" what is moderate? i was talking about it with a friend online and it looks like its really open to interptetation, here in finland you stop drinking moderately when you lose control cant remember a thing and kiss a wild hog. in spain maybe its different.
Click to expand...
As somebody who used alcohol to much when he was younger I can tell you I challenged many a pastor to show me from of the Bible that drinking is not God’s will for us…. until one day I was silenced by somebody with knowledge of Hebrew. If we look at the OT it is easy to see why we should not use alcohol because every time in the OT the Bible tell us to stay away from drinking wine it is fermented grape juice – thus wine. When the OT say we can drink wine it is fresh grape juice - not fermented.

“when the Old Testament speaks of wine, it seems to make a distinction between "alcoholic" and "non-alcoholic" wine. The Hebrew word "yayin" is used for fermented wine and "tirosh" for unfermented wine. Strong's describes "tirosh" as "must (grape juice) or fresh grape-juice (as just squeezed out)."”
 
GandalfTheWhite

GandalfTheWhite

Senior Member
#125,362
Jan 25, 2015
9,225
3,204
113
#125,362
PS said:
True, but what I want to say is that grace is the gift of the Holy Spirit and without the Comforter, (Jesus is the second person of the Trinity) we do not have grace.
Click to expand...
(Jesus is the second person of the Trinity) - what does it mean when you say Jesus is the second person in the Trinity?
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#125,363
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#125,363
GandalfTheWhite said:
As somebody who used alcohol to much when he was younger I can tell you I challenged many a pastor to show me from of the Bible that drinking is not God’s will for us…. until one day I was silenced by somebody with knowledge of Hebrew. If we look at the OT it is easy to see why we should not use alcohol because every time in the OT the Bible tell us to stay away from drinking wine it is fermented grape juice – thus wine. When the OT say we can drink wine it is fresh grape juice - not fermented.

“when the Old Testament speaks of wine, it seems to make a distinction between "alcoholic" and "non-alcoholic" wine. The Hebrew word "yayin" is used for fermented wine and "tirosh" for unfermented wine. Strong's describes "tirosh" as "must (grape juice) or fresh grape-juice (as just squeezed out)."”
Click to expand...
Grape juice is healthier than polluted water.
 
Melach

Melach

Well-known member
#125,365
Mar 28, 2019
2,057
1,526
113
#125,365
eternally-gratefull said:
So now if we do not speak in tongues we are lost
the heresy deepens
Click to expand...
im glad no one has ever faked that gift and its unfakeable so you know for sure if someone speaks in tongues they are saved. never ever has there been a case where a charismatic pastor has been caught in some serious s0d0my while speaking in tongues all day on sunday. it just doesnt happen!!

nvm thats the easiest gift to fake and people in the hyper-charismatic churches are sinners just like everyone else. i would say in some cases its even worse.

no matter what you think about men like john piper and guys like that. you rarely never heard people from his crowd be busted for having h0m0relations outside of their marriage. but in hyper-charismatic churches this happens so often its almost like monthly something comes out. here in finland there was one who was prophecied to go to africa and make finland known across teh world, people will fly here to see what God is doing here, this is God's servant. thats the prophecy but in reality while this prophecy was given this guy was cheating on his wife for over a year with a MAN so some servant there.

am i perfect? no. am i sinless? no. do i want my sins to be brought to the front and center? of course not. but i didnt mention his name here, and im not glad about it and im also not in a pastor position.
i believe if you are a pastor you are step above the others in how good you must live. like st.paul says he disciplines his body lest he also be disqualified. if st.paul was in some exposed sin what could happen is people no longer listen to him.
 
GandalfTheWhite

GandalfTheWhite

Senior Member
#125,366
Jan 25, 2015
9,225
3,204
113
#125,366
I often wonder about grace. The modern Christian church would want us to believe that grace is a NT concept but I think Adam and Eve, Noah, Abraham, Jacob, David, Samson etc. would be quick to disagree. Thank you Abba Father for your grace in my life… I needed it so bad
 
Melach

Melach

Well-known member
#125,367
Mar 28, 2019
2,057
1,526
113
#125,367
GandalfTheWhite said:
As somebody who used alcohol to much when he was younger I can tell you I challenged many a pastor to show me from of the Bible that drinking is not God’s will for us…. until one day I was silenced by somebody with knowledge of Hebrew. If we look at the OT it is easy to see why we should not use alcohol because every time in the OT the Bible tell us to stay away from drinking wine it is fermented grape juice – thus wine. When the OT say we can drink wine it is fresh grape juice - not fermented.

“when the Old Testament speaks of wine, it seems to make a distinction between "alcoholic" and "non-alcoholic" wine. The Hebrew word "yayin" is used for fermented wine and "tirosh" for unfermented wine. Strong's describes "tirosh" as "must (grape juice) or fresh grape-juice (as just squeezed out)."”
Click to expand...
i disagree i looked into it in hebrew already and melchizedek (type of Christ) brought forth wine and bread. the word for wine there isnt tirosh but its yayin. so point refuted.

i know it makes more sense to abstain completely from alcohol like muslims do. i believe in my flesh its better but i cant also disagree with the bible so i have to pretend to agree with it on principle, even tho in my heart i believe really its a terrible idea to have even one sip. i would of been avoided from so much trouble if i never drank even one drop. no wine in cana wedding i say. but i dont call the shots do i? let God decide whats better.

wine (yayin) makes glad the hearts of man. also about real wine. Jesus made real wine in cana. thats all there is really. but with all that said, how many times would i have fornicated without alcohol? probably not many since im very shy like regular finns are without booze in my tank.
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#125,368
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#125,368
GandalfTheWhite said:
I often wonder about grace. The modern Christian church would want us to believe that grace is a NT concept but I think Adam and Eve, Noah, Abraham, Jacob, David, Samson etc. would be quick to disagree. Thank you Abba Father for your grace in my life… I needed it so bad
Click to expand...
The Holy Spirit was right there in the beginning and grace comes by the Holy Spirit. God Bless.
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#125,369
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#125,369
Melach said:
i disagree i looked into it in hebrew already and melchizedek (type of Christ) brought forth wine and bread. the word for wine there isnt tirosh but its yayin. so point refuted.

i know it makes more sense to abstain completely from alcohol like muslims do. i believe in my flesh its better but i cant also disagree with the bible so i have to pretend to agree with it on principle, even tho in my heart i believe really its a terrible idea to have even one sip. i would of been avoided from so much trouble if i never drank even one drop. no wine in cana wedding i say. but i dont call the shots do i? let God decide whats better.

wine (yayin) makes glad the hearts of man. also about real wine. Jesus made real wine in cana. thats all there is really. but with all that said, how many times would i have fornicated without alcohol? probably not many since im very shy like regular finns are without booze in my tank.
Click to expand...
They drank both. The warnings are about strong drink i.e. alcohol.
 
R

Ruby123

Guest
#125,370
#125,370
Melach said:
i disagree i looked into it in hebrew already and melchizedek (type of Christ) brought forth wine and bread. the word for wine there isnt tirosh but its yayin. so point refuted.

i know it makes more sense to abstain completely from alcohol like muslims do. i believe in my flesh its better but i cant also disagree with the bible so i have to pretend to agree with it on principle, even tho in my heart i believe really its a terrible idea to have even one sip. i would of been avoided from so much trouble if i never drank even one drop. no wine in cana wedding i say. but i dont call the shots do i? let God decide whats better.

wine (yayin) makes glad the hearts of man. also about real wine. Jesus made real wine in cana. thats all there is really. but with all that said, how many times would i have fornicated without alcohol? probably not many since im very shy like regular finns are without booze in my tank.
Click to expand...
Keep away from the wine Melach. You can do it!!!
 
Melach

Melach

Well-known member
#125,371
Mar 28, 2019
2,057
1,526
113
#125,371
Ruby123 said:
Keep away from the wine Melach. You can do it!!!
Click to expand...
as i said previously melach "sober shelock" holmes is my name. no problems. i do it easy its just boring but i can do it and have done it.

the usual catch phrase "just say no!" is clische but actually its true. just dont do it and thats it.

thanks for the encouragement.
 
R

Ruby123

Guest
#125,372
#125,372
Melach said:
as i said previously melach "sober shelock" holmes is my name. no problems. i do it easy its just boring but i can do it and have done it.

the usual catch phrase "just say no!" is clische but actually its true. just dont do it and thats it.
Click to expand...
Ok then, good on ya Sherlock 😀
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#125,373
#125,373
Melach said:
as i said previously melach "sober shelock" holmes is my name. no problems. i do it easy its just boring but i can do it and have done it.

the usual catch phrase "just say no!" is clische but actually its true. just dont do it and thats it.

thanks for the encouragement.
Click to expand...
The key is moderation.... :)
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#125,374
#125,374
Melach said:
melach "sober sherlock" holmes has this question to ask: as an abstinent person with a very :sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep: life. i want to ask when people say "moderate drinker" what is moderate? i was talking about it with a friend online and it looks like its really open to interptetation, here in finland you stop drinking moderately when you lose control cant remember a thing and kiss a wild hog. in spain maybe its different.
Click to expand...
According to some American Insitute can't quite remember the name....4 drinks a day is moderate daily consumption....seems a little high to me.....so for you Melach stick to three and if you have four you will still be in range.:)
 
Melach

Melach

Well-known member
#125,376
Mar 28, 2019
2,057
1,526
113
#125,376
EleventhHour said:
According to some American Insitute can't quite remember the name....4 drinks a day is moderate daily consumption....seems a little high to me.....so for you Melach stick to three and if you have four you will still be in range.:)
Click to expand...
i wont even take one. only wine i drink is the communion cup and thats it
 
CherieR

CherieR

Senior Member
#125,377
May 6, 2017
2,271
1,429
113
#125,377
PS said:
I said there are other gifts. Speaking in tongues is one of them and I have others, tongues is the lest of them, and you know what I have just received the gift of tongues. Thank you, Lord.
Click to expand...
How do you know you have received the gift of tongues? I used to practice speaking in tongues but I would question if I really was and lacked peace about it. And so I stopped eventually. I am unsure of what spiritual gifts I have received but I don't think tongues is what God has for me because otherwise I think there should have been peace in my heart about it.
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#125,379
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#125,379
CherieR said:
How do you know you have received the gift of tongues? I used to practice speaking in tongues but I would question if I really was and lacked peace about it. And so I stopped eventually. I am unsure of what spiritual gifts I have received but I don't think tongues is what God has for me because otherwise I think there should have been peace in my heart about it.
Click to expand...
To be sure it needs an interpreter and I haven't seen anyone yet with the gift, but I was told years ago at a waiting meeting I had received but I wasn't confident and would never have spoken in public.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#125,380
#125,380
CherieR said:
How do you know you have received the gift of tongues? I used to practice speaking in tongues but I would question if I really was and lacked peace about it. And so I stopped eventually. I am unsure of what spiritual gifts I have received but I don't think tongues is what God has for me because otherwise I think there should have been peace in my heart about it.
Click to expand...
You will know you have the gift of tongues when you are speaking a real human (foreign) language that you do not know.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.