Why the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not for Today

[Dave-L]

Read my post 408 and to add, your suggestion

Maby, you should realize, that no Nation is Christfriendly. In europe you rarely find a country with more then 3% born again christians. How to speak from christfriendly europe? In china you will find more christians then in europe.

Christianity flourished in many nations. And did not in others.

 

[Dave-L]

"[[Perhaps your Jesus but the Jesus of the bible is here to save souls not do wonders to delight the flesh of sinful men.]]"

Dear Lord ....you never read the gospels huh?

Such basic knowledge evades you.
Almost all he did was in the realm of miracles
In fact,when John questioned his authenticity

Out of all the healing verses in the nt,the cessationists jettisons all to cling to some misframed verses to "prove" their point.
So blatantly offensive to the testimony of Jesus.

Notice how healing and forgiveness(salvation) interchange when Jesus heals on the sabbath.
Iow the gospel provides healing in the same covenant.
Healing was a huge part of Jesus ministry.
But beyond that,the gospel went forth with signs following.

Miracles galore everywhere Jesus went.

But you come along and claim that is a diffferent Jesus than the one you endorse.

Wow,your deal is perverted sir.
A nutered Gospel with a powerless Jesus.

Show some miracles happening in the epistles where Paul dealt with sick friends without healing them. And today. Any documented miracles other than through the prayer of faith? Why are tongues real today if the rest of the gifts aren't?

 

[Dave-L]

How do you know, do you have a verse to backup your oppinion?

How well do you know history. Check the spread of Christianity from the first century.

 

[Dave-L]

I am curious, when you see scriptures like these, do you perceive a blank page? Do you see squiggles and not words? Or does the lack of perception occur in the mind somewhere, so that you see the words and know what each word means but the meaning is lost? Are there words you see there, but they are different from what others of us see?

Matthew 3
5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,
6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.
....

11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Jesus promised this to the 12 Apostles.

 

[Dave-L]

Absolute nonsense as Acts 2v16-21,38,39 shows: "For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."

You write in your very first post: "(I used to be Pentecostal)," from reading your posts I have come to the conclusion that you don't have the first idea of what the baptism in the Holy Spirit is and haven't experienced it!

The "gift" of the Holy Spirit is not the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. All believers have the "gift". But only those with the gift th Apostles laid hands on received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. (Two outpourings included).

 

[Dave-L]

Just skip over many centuries of problems in history pre and post Reformation.

Did Christianity prevail through the difficulties? Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail against the church. Even though suffering under Antichrist. Which happened and most today missed it.

 

[wolfwint]

Christianity flourished in many nations. And did not in others.

Do you mean christianity ore people who believe in Jesus Christ? I know many " christians" which have no relationship with Christ.
At the end you will find believers in all nations. But you will not find Christ centered nations. Till Jesus reigns in Jerusalem.

 

[wolfwint]

The "gift" of the Holy Spirit is not the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. All believers have the "gift". But only those with the gift th Apostles laid hands on received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. (Two outpourings included).

There is only one baptism( ephe.4,4-5). And this is what every believer has. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are given from the Holy Spirit to all, according the will of the Holy Spirit. (To read in 1.cor.12)
There is no scriptual proof that only those got the baptism with the Holy Spirit, which got laying hand on from the 12 Apostles.
Bye the way, whom you count as the 12.th apostle?

 

[Dave-L]

There is only one baptism( ephe.4,4-5). And this is what every believer has. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are given from the Holy Spirit to all, according the will of the Holy Spirit. (To read in 1.cor.12)
There is no scriptual proof that only those got the baptism with the Holy Spirit, which got laying hand on from the 12 Apostles.
Bye the way, whom you count as the 12.th apostle?

Can you find an example from scripture where an Apostle was not involved in distributing the Baptism of the Holy Spirit? The "Gift" of the Holy Spirit is for all believers forever. But the Baptism was only for the 12 Apostles whom God gave it to at Pentecost, those at Cornelius' house, and any the Apostles laid hands on.

 

[Wansvic]

We are all hat and no cattle today in our charismatic claims.

Scripture speaks truth. One's lack of operation of a Spiritual gift in no way refutes what is clearly shown in the Word. God provided these gifts that flow through individuals in order to edify others in the church body.

 

[Dave-L]

Scripture speaks truth. One's lack of operation of a Spiritual gift in no way refutes what is clearly shown in the Word. God provided these gifts that flow through individuals in order to edify others in the church body.

If you speak in tongues, Paul says you have several gifts. Where's the proof?

 

[Wansvic]

If you speak in tongues, Paul says you have several gifts. Where's the proof?

Please provide the scriptures you are referring to and I will be happy to respond.

 

[Dave-L]

Please provide the scriptures you are referring to and I will be happy to respond.

“For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:” 1 Corinthians 12:8–10 (KJV 1900)

 

[1ofthem]

If you speak in tongues, Paul says you have several gifts. Where's the proof?

“For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:” 1 Corinthians 12:8–10 (KJV 1900)

If you read the scripture that you posted, then you should be able to answer your question with it.

To one is given....to another is given... Didn't say everyone would have them all, did it? Now you can have more than one gift, but it is given by the Spirit as he wills.

Read 1 Corinthians 12. It explains it all well. Paul starts out by saying he would not have you ignorant concerning the gifts, and explains it really well in that chapter.

 

[Dave-L]

If you read the scripture that you posted. Then you should be able to answer your question with it.

To one is given....to another is given... Didn't say everyone would have them all, did it? Now you can have more than one gift, but it is given by the Spirit as he wills.

Read 1 Corinthians 12. It explains it all well. Paul starts out by saying he would not have you ignorant concerning the gifts, and explains it really well in that chapter.

You should have several gifts if you speak in tongues. Let's see them.

 

[1ofthem]

You should have several gifts if you speak in tongues. Let's see them.

Dave you can turn a blind eye if you want that's up to you. However, if you want to see and open up your spiritual eyes then the scripture is right there in front of you. You have danced all around it, and twisted it up and down and all around by saying show me this show me that. If you really want to see then open your eyes because the scripture is right there in front of you.

 

[Dave-L]

Dave you can turn a blind eye if you want that's up to you. However, if you want to see and open up your spiritual eyes then the scripture is right there in front of you. You have danced all around it, but it is still right there in front of you.

Do a miracle and verify your "tongues" are real according to scripture.

 

[1ofthem]

Do a miracle and verify your "tongues" are real according to scripture.

Seems you are coming about it in the wrong way. You don't have any faith in the gifts of the Spirit and are asking a sign and you know what Jesus said about that.

 

[Absolutely]

The "gift" of the Holy Spirit is not the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. All believers have the "gift". But only those with the gift th Apostles laid hands on received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. (Two outpourings included).

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,....

(Not in the cessationists cherry picked butcher job workbook huh?)

You love your invincible ignorance.
That incubator has you perverting the word.
You do not know the bible.
Stop acting like you do.

 

[1ofthem]

Do a miracle and verify your "tongues" are real according to scripture.

Once again, it would pay to read 1 Corinthians 12. It is all explained. Are all apostles, Dave? I would say no. So that throws out your theory of only given to apostles, wouldn't you say?

27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.