Life after death.
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You should read before the question...in isa 33
I am not saying you are wrong. The righteous will dwell with God..
But ur interpretation that righteous will burn...
Isa 33:16 KJV He shall dwell on high: his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure.
I am not saying you are wrong. The righteous will dwell with God..
But ur interpretation that righteous will burn...
Isa 33:16 KJV He shall dwell on high: his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure.
Hello Bud62!
What you have stated is not true. Compare the two scriptures below:
"When He got into the boat, His disciples followed Him. Suddenly a violent storm came up on the sea, so that the boat was engulfed by the waves; but Jesus was sleeping. The disciples went and woke Him, saying, “Lord, save us! We are perishing!"
Both scriptures above use the same Greek word apollumi, which means to be completely cut of, complete loss of well being, ruination, not annihilation or nonexistence. So, are you saying that in the first scripture that the disciples are saying "Lord, save us! We are going to cease to exist? And what about the following:
"Neither is new wine put into old wineskins. If it is, the skins burst and the wine is spilled and the skins are destroyed. But new wine is put into fresh wineskins, and so both are preserved.”
If new wine is poured into old wineskins and they burst, do the wine skins and wine disappear, ceasing to exist? No! They still exist but are ruined. The same word is used in the following scripture:
"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."
The destruction that God will destroy with will be eternal existence in separation from God in the lake of fire, not cessation of existence.
Life and death are both states of eternal existence based on ones status with God.
Life = Eternal conscious existence in the presence and joy of the Lord in the kingdom of God
Death = Eternal conscious existence in separation from God in the Lake of fire
"And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."
First of all, Satan is spirit and not flesh that he should have his ashes upon the ground.
Notice in the scripture above, that it states that the beast and the false prophet who will have been thrown into the lake of fire a thousand years earlier, will be tormented day and night forever and ever, right along with Satan. If destruction meant that your gone, as in nonexistence as you claim, they would not be able to experience anything, One would have to be existing, conscious and aware, in order to experience torment day and night. And what about those who worship the beast:
"If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives its mark on his forehead or on his hand, he too will drink the wine of God’s anger, poured undiluted into the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented in fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever. Day and night there is no rest for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”
By the way, one would have to be conscious and existing in order to be tormented in the presence of the holy angels and the Lamb.
And what about the souls under the altar at the opening of the 5th seal?
What about the rich man in torment in flame and having a conversation with Abraham?
I could go on and on as there are many scriptures which demonstrate the conscious existence of the spirit after death for both the righteous and the wicked.
It is important to check the definitions of the Greek words apollumi, apoleia and Olethros in order to understand the meaning behind the translated words destruction, perish or ruined. Just fyi, none of them infer annihilation or nonexistence, but to be completely cut of, complete loss of well being and ruination, in an existing state.
What you have stated is not true. Compare the two scriptures below:
"When He got into the boat, His disciples followed Him. Suddenly a violent storm came up on the sea, so that the boat was engulfed by the waves; but Jesus was sleeping. The disciples went and woke Him, saying, “Lord, save us! We are perishing!"
Both scriptures above use the same Greek word apollumi, which means to be completely cut of, complete loss of well being, ruination, not annihilation or nonexistence. So, are you saying that in the first scripture that the disciples are saying "Lord, save us! We are going to cease to exist? And what about the following:
"Neither is new wine put into old wineskins. If it is, the skins burst and the wine is spilled and the skins are destroyed. But new wine is put into fresh wineskins, and so both are preserved.”
If new wine is poured into old wineskins and they burst, do the wine skins and wine disappear, ceasing to exist? No! They still exist but are ruined. The same word is used in the following scripture:
"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."
The destruction that God will destroy with will be eternal existence in separation from God in the lake of fire, not cessation of existence.
Life and death are both states of eternal existence based on ones status with God.
Life = Eternal conscious existence in the presence and joy of the Lord in the kingdom of God
Death = Eternal conscious existence in separation from God in the Lake of fire
"And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."
First of all, Satan is spirit and not flesh that he should have his ashes upon the ground.
Notice in the scripture above, that it states that the beast and the false prophet who will have been thrown into the lake of fire a thousand years earlier, will be tormented day and night forever and ever, right along with Satan. If destruction meant that your gone, as in nonexistence as you claim, they would not be able to experience anything, One would have to be existing, conscious and aware, in order to experience torment day and night. And what about those who worship the beast:
"If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives its mark on his forehead or on his hand, he too will drink the wine of God’s anger, poured undiluted into the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented in fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever. Day and night there is no rest for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”
By the way, one would have to be conscious and existing in order to be tormented in the presence of the holy angels and the Lamb.
And what about the souls under the altar at the opening of the 5th seal?
What about the rich man in torment in flame and having a conversation with Abraham?
I could go on and on as there are many scriptures which demonstrate the conscious existence of the spirit after death for both the righteous and the wicked.
It is important to check the definitions of the Greek words apollumi, apoleia and Olethros in order to understand the meaning behind the translated words destruction, perish or ruined. Just fyi, none of them infer annihilation or nonexistence, but to be completely cut of, complete loss of well being and ruination, in an existing state.
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That's exactly what it says and means! They shall be tormented day and night. And the smoke of their torment will rise up forever and ever. This is exactly what is going to happen. All your attempting to do is distort the plain meaning of what is being said. Think about a resurrected body that cannot be destroyed with that unsaved person in it. The smoke of his torment will rise up forever and ever.
Jesus spoke so that we could understand what He what He was saying, just the word of God is written so that we can understand it. People are always trying to infer that we can't know what scripture is saying.
If the plain literal sense makes good sense, then don't seek any other sense.
Jesus spoke so that we could understand what He what He was saying, just the word of God is written so that we can understand it. People are always trying to infer that we can't know what scripture is saying.
If the plain literal sense makes good sense, then don't seek any other sense.
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So much for "everlasting fire!" The inference of "everlasting fire" is aimed at those who will end up in it. If people were burned up on contact, once the last person was thrown in, there would no longer be any reason to keep the fire going. The separation from God and the torment in flame is the punishment.
You need to consider the whole word of God in order to come to a right conclusion. Below is Satan's fate:
And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
God said the above, that settles it!
And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
God said the above, that settles it!
Taking it further...
Mat_18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
Mat_25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat_25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
You need to come to grips with reconciling 'perish' with 'everlasting punishment' so both are included.
Mat_18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
Mat_25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat_25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
You need to come to grips with reconciling 'perish' with 'everlasting punishment' so both are included.
Angels that sinned will be tormented in the lake of fire in eternity.
Man that sinned. God will destroy both body and soul in lake of fire...second death...
Though their smoke rise up with the smoke of angels. Forever.
What does it mean, the soul that sinneth shall die...
We know everybody good or bad will die...
Body dies..return to dust...
Soul will it die?
Man that sinned. God will destroy both body and soul in lake of fire...second death...
Though their smoke rise up with the smoke of angels. Forever.
What does it mean, the soul that sinneth shall die...
We know everybody good or bad will die...
Body dies..return to dust...
Soul will it die?
Make no mistake, the scriptures are clear, that those who are reserved for the lake of fire will remain there, conscious and aware, just as the beast, the false prophet and Satan will. Scripture does not teach annihilation or extinction. Both life and death are states of eternal existence based on an individuals state of being with God.
As I said previously, both the righteous and the wicked will receive resurrected bodies, albeit, the wicked will receive bodies mete for their punishment.
And by the way, the reason that the smoke of their torment will rise up forever and ever, is because they will still be there in those resurrected bodies. One would have to be existing in order for them to experience torment.
As I said previously, both the righteous and the wicked will receive resurrected bodies, albeit, the wicked will receive bodies mete for their punishment.
And by the way, the reason that the smoke of their torment will rise up forever and ever, is because they will still be there in those resurrected bodies. One would have to be existing in order for them to experience torment.
Have a full read of matthew 18... and come back with your comments...
For me matthew 18 shows a righteous judgement.
Mat 18:34 KJV And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
1. Man like hitler... order the massacre of millions of jews
2. A simple man who killed a man defending her sister...bith do not believe in God...
Will they both suffer the same length of time (eternity) in eternal fire?
I think God is a righteous judge...even for the sinners.
For me matthew 18 shows a righteous judgement.
Mat 18:34 KJV And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
1. Man like hitler... order the massacre of millions of jews
2. A simple man who killed a man defending her sister...bith do not believe in God...
Will they both suffer the same length of time (eternity) in eternal fire?
I think God is a righteous judge...even for the sinners.