Free Will compatible with Sovereignty

[Judges1318]

Acts 16:14, The fact that Lydia was already worshiping God, indicates that she was already born again

Acts refers to 'God fearing' people who heard the gospel. They were already in an old covenant style relationship with God and were now being exposed to the gospel of Christ. Not to go too far off course here, but these are people with the 'water' part of 'water AND Spirit' Christ talks about in John 3:5. They lacked the 'Spirit' part.

Only God's sheep hear his voice.

God speaks to unconverted people through the enlightening testimony of the Holy Spirit: 1 John 5:9-10. Some choose to retain that testimony and are saved, while others reject it and are lost.

The old testament saints received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, the same way that we do in the regeneration process of the new birth.

In general, only kings and priests and other special, called people (i.e. Exodus 34:30-34) received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the old covenant. That's the beauty of the New Covenant. Now ALL the people of God have access to the indwelling Holy Spirit are 'in the ministry', so to speak.

Moses replied, "Are you jealous for my sake? I wish that all the LORD's people were prophets and that the LORD would put his Spirit on them!" - Numbers 11:29

Moses' was a prophet. His insightful 'wish' was granted in this New Covenant. Now ALL the Lord's people have access to the Spirit that used to be reserved for a special few in offices of ministry in the old covenant. Now we're all in the ministry to one extent or another and have access to this anointing.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. Is this talking only about the elect? Have only the elect sinned and come short of the glory of God? Have all men everywhere sinned and come short of the glory of God?

All means all. You twist Scripture to fit your theology.

As I have said before, "all scriptures must harmonize to understand the truths within them". Romans 3:23, is, indeed talking about all mankind, as referenced in verses 10, 11, and 12. The difference in 1 tim 4:10 and Romans 3:23, is that in 1 Tim 4:10, Jesus is the Saviour of the "all men", and in Romans 3:23, Jesus is not the Saviour of the "all men". I believe that you may be taking it out of context. Keep in mind, that all scripture must harmonize.

 

[Judges1318]

In scripture the born again cannot habitually sin or fall away. So the good soil is the new birth. The other soils are free will related mental assent.

The Galatians prove that this is not true.

Which means you're going to have to reevaluate your interpretation of 1 John 2:19. Obviously, it doesn't mean what Calvinism says it means. It has a very specific meaning and application, not an overall one.

Now, don't get me wrong. I think the born again person has to go back to unbelief to live in habitual sin/ fall away. Born again people continuing in faith do not do that.

 

[garee]

Acts refers to 'God fearing' people who heard the gospel. They were already in an old covenant style relationship with God and were now being exposed to the gospel of Christ. Not to go too far off course here, but these are people with the 'water' part of 'water AND Spirit' Christ talks about in John 3:5. They lacked the 'Spirit' part.


God speaks to unconverted people through the enlightening testimony of the Holy Spirit: 1 John 5:9-10. Some choose to retain that testimony and are saved, while others reject it and are lost.


In general, only kings and priests and other special, called people (i.e. Exodus 34:30-34) received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the old covenant. That's the beauty of the New Covenant. Now ALL the people of God have access to the indwelling Holy Spirit are 'in the ministry', so to speak.

Moses replied, "Are you jealous for my sake? I wish that all the LORD's people were prophets and that the LORD would put his Spirit on them!" - Numbers 11:29

Moses' was a prophet. His insightful 'wish' was granted in this New Covenant. Now ALL the Lord's people have access to the Spirit that used to be reserved for a special few in offices of ministry in the old covenant. Now we're all in the ministry to one extent or another and have access to this anointing.

All people that given ears to hear what the Spirit says to the churches. Moses a old testament apostle, prophet not a exception . Its not His insightful 'wish' but words of prophecy that he put on Moses tongue just as in the same way he did when he put his words of prophecy on the tongue of Balaam's ass(donkey) .It actively stopped the madness of the false prophet, false apostle. . Balaam .

God is simply not served with human hands in any way shape or form .As if needed something from the clay he forms Christ in.

He has no needs but satisfies all in Christ.

 

[Dave-L]

The Galatians prove that this is not true.

Which means you're going to have to reevaluate your interpretation of 1 John 2:19. Obviously, it doesn't mean what Calvinism says it means. It has a very specific meaning and application, not an overall one.

Now, don't get me wrong. I think the born again person has to go back to unbelief to live in habitual sin/ fall away. Born again people continuing in faith do not do that.

“for whoever is born of God overcomes the world, and the victory that overcomes the world is our faith.” 1 John 5:4 (MEV)

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Acts refers to 'God fearing' people who heard the gospel. They were already in an old covenant style relationship with God and were now being exposed to the gospel of Christ. Not to go too far off course here, but these are people with the 'water' part of 'water AND Spirit' Christ talks about in John 3:5. They lacked the 'Spirit' part.


God speaks to unconverted people through the enlightening testimony of the Holy Spirit: 1 John 5:9-10. Some choose to retain that testimony and are saved, while others reject it and are lost.


In general, only kings and priests and other special, called people (i.e. Exodus 34:30-34) received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the old covenant. That's the beauty of the New Covenant. Now ALL the people of God have access to the indwelling Holy Spirit are 'in the ministry', so to speak.

Moses replied, "Are you jealous for my sake? I wish that all the LORD's people were prophets and that the LORD would put his Spirit on them!" - Numbers 11:29

Moses' was a prophet. His insightful 'wish' was granted in this New Covenant. Now ALL the Lord's people have access to the Spirit that used to be reserved for a special few in offices of ministry in the old covenant. Now we're all in the ministry to one extent or another and have access to this anointing.

All of the born again saints of the old testament were babes in Christ, feeding upon the milk of the word, due to not having the knowledge of the doctrine of Jesus. Most of the born again, with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, today are still babes in Christ, lacking the understanding of the doctrine of Jesus, and are going about trying to establish their own righteousness, by their good works. as indicated in Romans 10:1-2-3.

1 John 5 is referencing the difference in the natural man, before he has been regenerated, and the spiritual man, who has been regenerated. In your theory, Were all of the good people in the old testament that were not "specially called" going to heaven, without being born again? I do not see scripture that upholds to only the specially called.

 

[John146]

As I have said before, "all scriptures must harmonize to understand the truths within them". Romans 3:23, is, indeed talking about all mankind, as referenced in verses 10, 11, and 12. The difference in 1 tim 4:10 and Romans 3:23, is that in 1 Tim 4:10, Jesus is the Saviour of the "all men", and in Romans 3:23, Jesus is not the Saviour of the "all men". I believe that you may be taking it out of context. Keep in mind, that all scripture must harmonize.

Jesus is the Savior of all men because all men have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. "Harmonized!"

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Jesus is the Savior of all men because all men have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. "Harmonized!"

Saviour= deliverer. If Jesus is the deliverer to all mankind, then all mankind will be delivered from this world into heaven. Romans 3:22 says that Jesus is the deliverer of only the believers that are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. The "unto all" in Rom 3:22, and the "all men" in 1 Tim 4:10, and the "world" in John 3:16 are all three restricted to believers only.

 

[John146]

If Jesus is the deliverer to all mankind, then all mankind will be delivered from this world into heaven.

Why would you say this? Jesus came to give all men salvation. Calvin's fatalism has really messed up the minds of a lot of people.

 

[Judges1318]

Its not His insightful 'wish' but words of prophecy that he put on Moses tongue just as in the same way he did when he put his words of prophecy on the tongue of Balaam's ass(donkey)

That's what I was getting at when I put 'wish' in single quotes.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Why would you say this? Jesus came to give all men salvation. Calvin's fatalism has really messed up the minds of a lot of people.

Why would you say that God wants to save all of mankind, but mankind won't let him? What part of all powerful do you not understand?

 

[Judges1318]

Calvin's fatalism has really messed up the minds of a lot of people.

In the big picture, Calvinism is an end-times, latter day teaching in the church. And I agree, it has done A LOT of damage in the church. I consider it to be largely responsible for the great falling away that was prophesied to happen before the appearing of Christ. We're in it right now. And it's progress just in the last twenty years has astounded me. Not the progress of Calvinism itself (traditional Calvinism seems to be on the wane), but the hideous doctrines that have sprung up from it. The fundamental error of Calvinism seems to be his misunderstanding of 'election'. That is the driving force behind once saved always saved. And 'free grace' doctrine is the ugly step-sister of osas. It just keeps getting worse, and quicker, all the time.

 

[Judges1318]

“for whoever is born of God overcomes the world, and the victory that overcomes the world is our faith.” 1 John 5:4 (MEV)

That's why we should continue to be born again by continuing to believe in Christ.

 

[Dave-L]

That's why we should continue to be born again by continuing to believe in Christ.

Born again = a new person who hates sin and loves righteousness. And will always overcome.

 

[Judges1318]

Most of the born again, with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, today are still babes in Christ, lacking the understanding of the doctrine of Jesus, and are going about trying to establish their own righteousness, by their good works.

No, not in the Protestant church (generally speaking).
The exact OPPOSITE is true.
Overall, there is no desire or effort being expended to live in God's righteousness in the Protestant church.
And it's all because of a distorted, misguide doctrine called 'once saved always saved' and the misunderstanding of 'election'.

 

[garee]

As I have said before, "all scriptures must harmonize to understand the truths within them". Romans 3:23, is, indeed talking about all mankind, as referenced in verses 10, 11, and 12. The difference in 1 tim 4:10 and Romans 3:23, is that in 1 Tim 4:10, Jesus is the Saviour of the "all men", and in Romans 3:23, Jesus is not the Saviour of the "all men". I believe that you may be taking it out of context. Keep in mind, that all scripture must harmonize.

The savior of. . . all the men the father gave to the Son or as many as the father gave. They alone will come . Not all the men born into this world.

But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me John 6:36-38

As many as. A unknown faith principle.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, "to them" gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

 

[Judges1318]

Born again = a new person who hates sin and loves righteousness. And will always overcome.

Born again=your spirit in union with God's Spirit.
And the born again person will always overcome as long as that union is nurtured through the continued believing of the person.

 

[Dave-L]

Born again=your spirit in union with God's Spirit.
And the born again person will always overcome as long as that union is nurtured through the continued believing of the person.

Paul says we are a new creation.

 

[Judges1318]

Why would you say that God wants to save all of mankind, but mankind won't let him? What part of all powerful do you not understand?

He could if he wanted to.
But love dictates that he not force mankind to respond against their fundamental will to love him and be saved.

The bottom line is, people will either love righteousness, or hate it. That's what this is ALL about.
God is working the hearts and minds of mankind to see who will love righteousness and who will not.
The inherent capacity to love righteousness or hate it belongs to us.
It's a quality that belongs to us, not manufactured in us by God.

 

[John146]

Why would you say that God wants to save all of mankind, but mankind won't let him? What part of all powerful do you not understand?

God doesn't go against the will of man. Do you sin? Are you going against God when you sin? God was not willing that Paul go down to Jerusalem, and yet Paul went anyway.