Hell, Sheol, Hades, etc...

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watcher2013 said:
Letter to the seven churches are actual churches during John's days...
The voice to come up here...
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You are correct. But they are also representing the churches through the entire church period with those same characteristics.

You are having difficulty to believe when the 7th angel sounded the last trumpet and here you are considering the voice as the sound of trumpet.
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I don't have difficulty understanding that the 7th angel with his trumpet is not the last trumpet where the church is gathered and that for the reasons I gave you. If the church was gathered at the 7th trumpet, it would put the living church through all of the seals and trumpet judgments, which are the wrath of God and which believers are not appointed to suffer. In addition, the last trumpet is a blessed event where the church is gathered. Where the 7th angel and his trumpet is one of God's plagues of wrath. So there is not difficulty in understanding that the seventh angel and his trumpet is a completely different trumpet.

Read rev 11...you will also sèe "come up here + trumpet +rewards..
The saints are protected??? On the contrary the saints are overcome by the beast. But during the bowl of wrath...those who have the mark will be affected.
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You will not find any post where I said that the saints are protected. According to Rev.13:5-7, the beast will be given power to make war with the saints and to conquer them during that last 3 1/2 years.

When you die today? Does that mean you experienced thee wrath of God?
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No! The wrath of God is a coming period of time in which the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will be poured out, also known as the day of the Lord. As I said previously, the church will not be on the earth during the time of God's wrath.

And its no difference if you die during those period...however you die you still die...the early members were crucified and burnt to crisp. Did they experience the wrath of God?
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No, the early church did not experience the wrath of God. They experience what Jesus said they would, which is trial and tribulation for the Lord's name sake and the word of God. People in other parts of the world are still suffering this as well.

Understand the wrath of God...
Truly the world will experience devastating events and people die. (Heb 9:27)...but fear him who is able to destroy both body and soul...
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I do understand the coming wrath of God, which will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments and through the plagues that the two witnesses will bring upon the earth. Anyone on the earth during that time period will be exposed to God's wrath simply because they are on the earth. This is why Jesus warns believer to be watching and ready, looking for His appearing so that this day will not close on us like a trap.
 
Chris1975 said:
How do you know this (in red above). Or is it merely an opinion?
I agree with your last sentence.
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That's a long answer, but in short, I believe in the TR in which it was translated from. I believe the fruit of the KJV is great evidence. The most revered preachers of the past were KJV only. I've never seen a mistake that couldn't be rectified. The KJV came out in the perfect time in history as the English language was going to be the closest thing to a world wide language.
 
Chris1975 said:
In a very concise nutshell it goes like this:

Church Age (where Gentiles eyes are opened and Israel is blinded) is coming to an end. It will end with the rapture of the True church. Then.........
Those left behind will be primarily three groups of Gentiles:
1. unbelievers who never believed - the vast majority of people - they will be willing to worship the beast.
2.Those who in the church did not cleanse themselves of their filthy acts and works - who still do not repent - and begin to worship the beast
3. A small remnant of Gentiles who also did not forsake all to follow Christ, but are now cut to the heart that they missed the rapture. It is these who are the saints referred to above who will be persecuted unto death because they refuse to worship the beast.

During this period the Gentiles as a corporate body will be blinded, and once again Israel's eyes will be opened in fulfillment of many scriptures pointing to this fact. Israel (the woman) will be pursued but there will be supernatural protection upon a number of these in Israel (a remnant will be saved according to Election).

Just before Jesus returns there will be a second rapture (mainly believing Israel and some remnant Gentiles who have escaped the persecution of the beast).

Both these raptures are referred to in the scriptures. You just need to know where to look :).
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Apology to OP.
Your church age is incomplete.
It begins with the Jews (not gentiles) obviously the Head is a Jew. It spread to the gentiles.
Peter, paul and early jewish believers are members of church so as the jews that believed today and tomorrow.
Israel on the other hand will experience the upcoming battle...armageddon.

The beast will arise...many people will take the mark but not all.
The saints/elect will be overcome by the beast.
Jesus will come gather his elect..resurrect the dead...

Begin to reign for 1000 years in earth...Jerusalem as base.
Those who survived (not saints) will continue to live in this era.
The resurrected saints will reign with Christ in their respective area. Obviously peace on earth.satan in abyss.
After 1000 years satan will be loose and decieve those (not saints) and make war gogmagog of revelation. Then the day of the lord will come like a thief with all elements burn.
Heaven and earth will pass away then judgement come. The wicked resurrected and judged. Put in the lake of fire.satan and his minions.
Then a new heaven and a new earth with no more sea...but with water ofcourse.
Thats my version of story
 
watcher2013 said:
Apology to OP.
Your church age is incomplete.
It begins with the Jews (not gentiles) obviously the Head is a Jew. It spread to the gentiles.
Peter, paul and early jewish believers are members of church so as the jews that believed today and tomorrow.
Israel on the other hand will experience the upcoming battle...armageddon.

The beast will arise...many people will take the mark but not all.
The saints/elect will be overcome by the beast.
Jesus will come gather his elect..resurrect the dead...

Begin to reign for 1000 years in earth...Jerusalem as base.
Those who survived (not saints) will continue to live in this era.
The resurrected saints will reign with Christ in their respective area. Obviously peace on earth.satan in abyss.
After 1000 years satan will be loose and decieve those (not saints) and make war gogmagog of revelation. Then the day of the lord will come like a thief with all elements burn.
Heaven and earth will pass away then judgement come. The wicked resurrected and judged. Put in the lake of fire.satan and his minions.
Then a new heaven and a new earth with no more sea...but with water ofcourse.
Thats my version of story
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Romans 11
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own [f]opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

2 Thessalonians 2
9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
 
Chris1975 said:
Romans 11
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own [f]opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

2 Thessalonians 2
9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
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Blindness in PART.
Not totally blind
 
Ahwatukee said:
You are correct. But they are also representing the churches through the entire church period with those same characteristics.
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Are you suggesting that Christ will not come until those (representing churches) are complete. I think you beliwve in imminent return, that doesnt make sense.


I don't have difficulty understanding that the 7th angel with his trumpet is not the last trumpet where the church is gathered and that for the reasons I gave you. If the church was gathered at the 7th trumpet, it would put the living church through all of the seals and trumpet judgments, which are the wrath of God and which believers are not appointed to suffer. In addition, the last trumpet is a blessed event where the church is gathered. Where the 7th angel and his trumpet is one of God's plagues of wrath. So there is not difficulty in understanding that the seventh angel and his trumpet is a completely different trumpet.
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Those unbelievers that die today. Will they suffer the wrath of God?
God allow the jews to suffer in the hands of egypt but then protected them during the 10 plagues. Likewise, the saints will be overcome by the beast but protected during the plagues.


You will not find any post where I said that the saints are protected. According to Rev.13:5-7, the beast will be given power to make war with the saints and to conquer them during that last 3 1/2 years.



No! The wrath of God is a coming period of time in which the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will be poured out, also known as the day of the Lord. As I said previously, the church will not be on the earth during the time of God's wrath.
Click to expand...




No, the early church did not experience the wrath of God. They experience what Jesus said they would, which is trial and tribulation for the Lord's name sake and the word of God. People in other parts of the world are still suffering this as well.



I do understand the coming wrath of God, which will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments and through the plagues that the two witnesses will bring upon the earth. Anyone on the earth during that time period will be exposed to God's wrath simply because they are on the earth. This is why Jesus warns believer to be watching and ready, looking for His appearing so that this day will not close on us like a trap.[/QUOTE]
The church will be here with glorified bodies (nothing can hurt them) when the 7th angel sounded the last trump.
Begins the day of the Lord. His reign. At the end of his reign thee Day of the Lord will come like a thief. With all the elements burnt.
 
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