Why the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not for Today

[bud62]

Wrong

it says we were baptized INTO Jesus death. Not INTO water

john Said jesus will baptise with Hs and FIRE and those who are baptized into fire shall be burned ...HELL

you better pick which one you want, because you will be baptized by God, one way or the other

Show me where God says that HE is going baptize the wicked . I know that HE is going to burn them ,To ashes ,But HE doesn't call it baptism ,at all . that I know of .

 

[EternalFire]

For those who wish to study this topic from a scholarly perspective, I believe you will find Chadwick Haygood’s thesis quite helpful. “EARNESTLY DESIRING PROPHECY: UNDERSTANDING AND OBEYING THE COMMAND OF 1 CORINTHIANS 14:1” may be viewed using the link below.

https://rts.edu/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Haygood_Chadwick_Thesis_20180706.pdf

 

[bud62]

For those who wish to study this topic from a scholarly perspective, I believe you will find Chadwick Haygood’s thesis quite helpful. “EARNESTLY DESIRING PROPHECY: UNDERSTANDING AND OBEYING THE COMMAND OF 1 CORINTHIANS 14:1” may be viewed using the link below.

https://rts.edu/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Haygood_Chadwick_Thesis_20180706.pdf

For those who wish to study this topic from a scholarly perspective, I believe you will find Chadwick Haygood’s thesis quite helpful. “EARNESTLY DESIRING PROPHECY: UNDERSTANDING AND OBEYING THE COMMAND OF 1 CORINTHIANS 14:1” may be viewed using the link below.

https://rts.edu/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Haygood_Chadwick_Thesis_20180706.pdf

water baptism represent JESUS DEATH , HIS burial , resurrection ,

 

[EternalFire]

water baptism represent JESUS DEATH , HIS burial , resurrection ,

Amen. It's like the water in the days of Noah.

1 Peter 3:21-22
Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.

 

[bud62]

Show me where God says that HE is going baptize the wicked . I know that HE is going to burn them ,To ashes ,But HE doesn't call it baptism ,at all . that I know of .

John the Baptist , preaching in the wilderness of Judaea , saying I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance : but he that cometh after me is mightier then I ,whose shoes I am not worthy to bear : HE shall baptize you with the HOLY Ghost ,and with fire: Matthew 3:11 .
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the spirit , if so be that the spirit of GOD dwell in you, Now if any man have not the spirit of CHRIST,he is none of HIS .

 

[notuptome]

Amen. It's like the water in the days of Noah.

1 Peter 3:21-22
Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.

Water to Noah was Gods judgment upon the wickedness of mankind. No redemption in the water Noah saw only judgment.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Jackson123]

I

Tongues ceased
“Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.” (1 Corinthians 13:8–10)

What is the “Perfect” = complete in Greek?
“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16–17)

When John finished Revelation, scripture was complete.

So the Complete scripture replaced the incomplete prophecy and tongues.

If you want more consider this.

Paul said; “so that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the revelation [apocalypse] of our Lord Jesus Christ; who shall also confirm you

unto the end, that ye be unreproveable in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (1 Corinthians 1:7) = a Revelation [apocalypse] before the final apocalypse. What is it?

“The Revelation [apocalypse] of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John;” (Revelation 1:1)

Both of these themes fit together perfectly. And history confirms the gifts ceased until a few groups claimed to have them. But all is hearsay with no eyewitness or firsthand accounts.

It doesn't say when scripture complete.



It only say when It perfect come. You add scripture.

You say prophecy not complete. Book of revelation is prophecy so

See my equation below

Prophecy not complete

Book of reve is prophecy

So book of rev is not complete.

In other word when you say prophecy not complete = you say book of revelation not complete.

Jesus also promise to send Holy Spirit to teach

Is that also replace by bible, No need Holy Spirit anymore because for doctrine replace by complete bible?

 

[Jackson123]

Judas had been replaced by drawing lots to fill his place by a second Matthew.

It happen after pentacost, so when pantecost happen, apostle only 11, than 12 becouse Mathias, than 13 because Paul

 

[Dave-L]

I


It doesn't say when scripture complete.



It only say when It perfect come. You add scripture.

You say prophecy not complete. Book of revelation is prophecy so

See my equation below

Prophecy not complete

Book of reve is prophecy

So book of rev is not complete.

In other word when you say prophecy not complete = you say book of revelation not complete.

Jesus also promise to send Holy Spirit to teach

Is that also replace by bible, No need Holy Spirit anymore because for doctrine replace by complete bible?

Why do you think you have any of the gifts?

 

[Dave-L]

For those who wish to study this topic from a scholarly perspective, I believe you will find Chadwick Haygood’s thesis quite helpful. “EARNESTLY DESIRING PROPHECY: UNDERSTANDING AND OBEYING THE COMMAND OF 1 CORINTHIANS 14:1” may be viewed using the link below.

https://rts.edu/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Haygood_Chadwick_Thesis_20180706.pdf

These still cannot prove tongues and prophecy are for today. They must provide from scripture another way the baptism came besides the two outpourings. Or through an apostle's hands. They are nothing of substance until they or anyone else does.

 

[Dave-L]

I


It doesn't say when scripture complete.

Are you saying God's word is not perfect?

 

[Dave-L]

It is evident from the title of the OP that you have a serious misunderstanding about this subject.

BAPTISM WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT
I [John] indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: He [Christ] shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: (Matthew 3:11)

THE OUTPOURING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT
And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. (Acts 1:4,5)

ACTS 2: THE DAY OF PENTECOST (TONGUES FOR THE APOSTLES AND DISCIPLES)
1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

ACTS 2: THE GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT WITHOUT A MANIFESTATION OF TONGUES
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized [Christian baptism, not tongues]: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

So what we see is that the baptism WITH the Holy Ghost is the same as receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit without necessarily speaking in tongues (languages). Is it as essential today as it was then? ABSOLUTELY. No one can be saved without receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Only the Apostles received the baptism. Did the 3000 at pentecost go around raising the dead? Or healing the paralysed? Or performing ANY of the miracles the apostles did? Where does it say others spoke in tongues? It only mentions the apostles giving the gifts to a few through their hands who spoke in tongues. You need to study for yourself and take a long look at this.

 

[Jackson123]

Why do you think you have any of the gifts?

Did I say I have any of the gift?

I say the gift is not cease yet

 

[Chris1975]

Only the Apostles received the baptism. Did the 3000 at pentecost go around raising the dead? Or healing the paralysed? Or performing ANY of the miracles the apostles did? Where does it say others spoke in tongues? It only mentions the apostles giving the gifts to a few through their hands who spoke in tongues. You need to study for yourself and take a long look at this.

Mark 16v17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

 

[Nehemiah6]

Only the Apostles received the baptism. Did the 3000 at pentecost go around raising the dead? Or healing the paralysed? Or performing ANY of the miracles the apostles did? Where does it say others spoke in tongues? It only mentions the apostles giving the gifts to a few through their hands who spoke in tongues. You need to study for yourself and take a long look at this.

You still remain confused. You need to distinguish between (1) the baptism with the Holy Spirit (which is the gift of the Spirit to all), (2) the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, (3) the baptism by the Holy Spirit, (4) the filling or fulness of the Holy Spirit, and (2) the gifts of the Holy Spirit (also called spiritual gifts).

Every Christian receives the gift of the Holy Spirit and at least one spiritual gift. But the signs, wonders, and miracles were given to the New Testament churches while the apostles were on earth. Those would authenticate the Gospel to unbelieving Jews.

How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will? (Hebrews 2:3,4)

Note: Pentecostal churches introduced confusion by speaking of the baptism of the Holy Spirit with tongues as the evidence. But since all cannot and will not speak in tongues, this simply adds to confusion.

 

[Whispered]

The second Matthew is also known as Matthias...

Meaning, "gift of God".

 

[Whispered]

Wrong

it says we were baptized INTO Jesus death. Not INTO water

john Said jesus will baptise with Hs and FIRE and those who are baptized into fire shall be burned ...HELL

you better pick which one you want, because you will be baptized by God, one way or the other

Of course water is part of Baptism.

 

[bud62]

This has generated lots of interest so I am posting my understanding of the issue. (I used to be Pentecostal).

Why the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not for Today

Understanding the Baptism with the Holy Spirit in Acts is difficult. But I found the keys are the Ethiopian Eunuch Acts 8:27 and the Samarians Acts 8:5. In essence, all had the Holy Spirit but only the Samarians had the Baptism with the Holy Spirit.

These received the gift of the Holy Spirit according to Peter in Acts 2:38 just as we do today. But the Samarians also received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit through the apostle’s hands which the Eunuch did not.

On Pentecost God baptized the 12 Apostles with the Holy Spirit who also spoke in tongues. According to Acts 2:38 the eunuch and the Samarians had the gift of the Holy Spirit through Philip’s preaching. But Philip could not provide the baptism of the Holy Spirit for either. Acts reveals that beyond the two outpourings, only the Apostles through the laying on of their hands could baptize people in the Holy Spirit. It was the proof of apostleship Hebrews 2:4.

When the Apostles visited the Samarian converts, they laid their hands on them baptizing them in the Holy Spirit. But this was not the case with the Eunuch. It says he went on his way rejoicing after Philip baptized him in water.

So the Samarians and the Eunuch received the gift of the Holy Spirit through Philip’s preaching. But only the Samarians received the baptism with the Holy Spirit through the Apostles’ hands.

About 7 years later, God poured out the Holy Spirit on the gentiles at Cornelius’ house which resulted in their speaking in tongues just as the Apostles did at Pentecost.

Scripture doesn’t mention the 3000 converts on the day of Pentecost as baptized with the Holy Spirit. Nor the 5,000 converts days later. But we might assume those whom the Apostles baptized in water also received the baptism with the Holy Spirit through their hands. But anyone baptized by someone other than an apostle would have been like the Eunuch who received only the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Later, Paul preached to the disciples at Ephesus Acts 19:1. These like the Eunuch received the gift of the Holy Spirit. But they also received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit through the apostle’s hands the same way the Samarians did.

The Baptism with the Holy Spirit provided God’s word through tongues and prophecy until the New Testament canon became complete. How do we know this? Paul says scripture thoroughly equips us 2 Timothy 3:17. Paul said tongues and prophecy provided only partial knowledge 1 Corinthians 13:9. So it makes sense scripture replaced them when completed.

Beyond Acts, the Corinthians no doubt received the Baptism with the Holy Spirit through Paul’s hands. And Paul mentioned he wanted to visit the Romans to give spiritual gifts to them too Romans 1:11. Paul mentions laying his hands on Timothy who also received a gift 2 Timothy 1:6.

So we can say scripture directly supports the Baptism of the Holy Spirit for those ministered to by an apostle. That it was not for all. The Baptism with the Holy Spirit passed into history with the rest of the apostles Hebrews 2:4 because only they provided it as a sign of their authority. And that scripture replaced the fragmentary gifts of tongues and prophecy with the completed revelation. And we can confidently say believers from Pentecost on have the gift of Holy Spirit according to Acts 2:38, but not the Baptism with the Holy Spirit. Just as the Eunuch and believers since then.

LUKE11:13 If then , being evil , know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the HOLY SPIRIT to them that ask HIM ? praise GOD . I believe WE haft to have the HOLY Spirit , to guide us and to protect from Satan ,AND to prepair our way ,before us ,to be able to stand . And more .I don't know about you all ,But I don't want to do with out GODs HOLY SPIRIT. GOD bless as HE sees fit .

 

[Jackson123]

Are you saying God's word is not perfect?

Jesus is perfect, he come to earth and gift is not cease.

The word perfect can be a Lot of thing.

Jesus is perfect

Holy Spirit is Perfect,

God the Father is perfect

The word of God is perfect.

Heaven is perfect.

Why you think the word perfect in that verse is word of God?

Not fit to the context.

Say the word of God is perfect, It is

Jesus teaching is the word of God, when He come to earth with the teaching(perfect) gift of healing not cease

 

[7seasrekeyed]

This has generated lots of interest so I am posting my understanding of the issue. (I used to be Pentecostal).

Why the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not for Today

Understanding the Baptism with the Holy Spirit in Acts is difficult. But I found the keys are the Ethiopian Eunuch Acts 8:27 and the Samarians Acts 8:5. In essence, all had the Holy Spirit but only the Samarians had the Baptism with the Holy Spirit.

These received the gift of the Holy Spirit according to Peter in Acts 2:38 just as we do today. But the Samarians also received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit through the apostle’s hands which the Eunuch did not.

On Pentecost God baptized the 12 Apostles with the Holy Spirit who also spoke in tongues. According to Acts 2:38 the eunuch and the Samarians had the gift of the Holy Spirit through Philip’s preaching. But Philip could not provide the baptism of the Holy Spirit for either. Acts reveals that beyond the two outpourings, only the Apostles through the laying on of their hands could baptize people in the Holy Spirit. It was the proof of apostleship Hebrews 2:4.

When the Apostles visited the Samarian converts, they laid their hands on them baptizing them in the Holy Spirit. But this was not the case with the Eunuch. It says he went on his way rejoicing after Philip baptized him in water.

So the Samarians and the Eunuch received the gift of the Holy Spirit through Philip’s preaching. But only the Samarians received the baptism with the Holy Spirit through the Apostles’ hands.

About 7 years later, God poured out the Holy Spirit on the gentiles at Cornelius’ house which resulted in their speaking in tongues just as the Apostles did at Pentecost.

Scripture doesn’t mention the 3000 converts on the day of Pentecost as baptized with the Holy Spirit. Nor the 5,000 converts days later. But we might assume those whom the Apostles baptized in water also received the baptism with the Holy Spirit through their hands. But anyone baptized by someone other than an apostle would have been like the Eunuch who received only the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Later, Paul preached to the disciples at Ephesus Acts 19:1. These like the Eunuch received the gift of the Holy Spirit. But they also received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit through the apostle’s hands the same way the Samarians did.

The Baptism with the Holy Spirit provided God’s word through tongues and prophecy until the New Testament canon became complete. How do we know this? Paul says scripture thoroughly equips us 2 Timothy 3:17. Paul said tongues and prophecy provided only partial knowledge 1 Corinthians 13:9. So it makes sense scripture replaced them when completed.

Beyond Acts, the Corinthians no doubt received the Baptism with the Holy Spirit through Paul’s hands. And Paul mentioned he wanted to visit the Romans to give spiritual gifts to them too Romans 1:11. Paul mentions laying his hands on Timothy who also received a gift 2 Timothy 1:6.

So we can say scripture directly supports the Baptism of the Holy Spirit for those ministered to by an apostle. That it was not for all. The Baptism with the Holy Spirit passed into history with the rest of the apostles Hebrews 2:4 because only they provided it as a sign of their authority. And that scripture replaced the fragmentary gifts of tongues and prophecy with the completed revelation. And we can confidently say believers from Pentecost on have the gift of Holy Spirit according to Acts 2:38, but not the Baptism with the Holy Spirit. Just as the Eunuch and believers since then.

since you believe that flesh cannot comprehend anything of the Spirit and here you reveal that besides beng a Calvinist, you are also a cessationist

well I mean most of us knew that since the two are like a hand in a glove

so you underscore the reason you do not comprehend what is plainly written