I agree with what Dcontroversial has said so far. We will probably agree on this question too.
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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I agree with what Dcontroversial has said so far. We will probably agree on this question too.
Dcontroversal, Yes, you did say it, so I apologize for not seeing this, and therefore I was mistaken. You might want to withhold judgement about my "true colors", realizing that errors are sometimes made. I would have simply stated that I did say that, given the post number, and not have made personal attacks about the other person's character. Not everyone is the boogeyman, Dcontroversal.
You answered the question, so nothing to debate.
You answered the question, so nothing to debate.
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EleventhHour
Guest
Really?
What happened to the I only want a yes or no answer.
You seemed to have switched gears.... but okay.
Actually, there is something I would like to point out.
Do you see how the BOLDED portion shows that the question is not a moot point actually? Because if it is possible that such person was never saved, it really is not a moot point now, is it?
Between DControversal, you, and I the question is not in debate, it is settled.
I am questioning his argument that the question is actually a moot point.
Dcontroversal introduced a new argument here. We are no longer discussing the answer to the question, we are now discussing the validity of the question. See post above
So yeah, were shifting gears, courtesy of Dcontroversal.
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EleventhHour
Guest
Mat 7:21-23 KJV
(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
(23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Notice that Jesus is specifically talking about people who have prophesied and cast out demons in His name....An unbeliever cannot cast demons out of someone because they do not have the legal authority to be able to do so. Demons are cast out of people by the power of the Holy Spirit. You have to have the Holy Spirit living and operating on the inside of you before you can cast demons out of someone. Only born-again Christians have the Holy Spirit living and operating on the inside of them – unbelievers do not! As a result, unbelievers do not have the power of the Holy Spirit or the legal authority from God the Father to cast demons out of anyone.
https://www.bible-knowledge.com/lose-your-salvation/
(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
(23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Notice that Jesus is specifically talking about people who have prophesied and cast out demons in His name....An unbeliever cannot cast demons out of someone because they do not have the legal authority to be able to do so. Demons are cast out of people by the power of the Holy Spirit. You have to have the Holy Spirit living and operating on the inside of you before you can cast demons out of someone. Only born-again Christians have the Holy Spirit living and operating on the inside of them – unbelievers do not! As a result, unbelievers do not have the power of the Holy Spirit or the legal authority from God the Father to cast demons out of anyone.
https://www.bible-knowledge.com/lose-your-salvation/
It is very useful for a person that is in that state, wouldn't you say? If I were in that hypothetical state, would that be a useful question for me to ask? I certainly think so.
Would it be useful for me to examine myself and see if I am really in the faith, (2 Cor. 13:15)
3and then if I actually am, to not only rest in that, but to actually say "hey, what am I doing here?" I don't belong here.
Very useful to examine oneself whether in this state or not in this state.
Besides, how do you know my spiritual condition or the spiritual condition of others on this board?
And how do you know who this question might or might not be useful for?
If someone is in the state I described, would this not be a useful question to ask? The vast majority of OSAS evangelicals would say it would be. Because they read James, and Paul, and John, and the Gospels, and these teach us to be Dilligent in these matters.
Don't they?
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EleventhHour
Guest
I really do not get the sense that was what you were after.. the question seemed to be more around if such a person was actually saved ... I personally think hypothetical statements are best used in grade eight science class.
Jesus said in that verse he never knew them. If the verses were referring to born again believers, the addition of the word never would not be there because in that case he would have knew them for a time and then did not.
Never Knew Them is a referrence to the inner, personal way of intimately LOVING THEM. HE is in us and we are Baptized into HIS SPIRITUAL BODY when the HOLY SPIRIT CAME IN, giving us the Mind of Christ, 1 Cor. 2:16. It is not knowing who there names are, HE IS THE CREATOR that formed them in the Womb.
That is not what I was trying to say. But rather someone who is born again is known by God relationally. So if Jesus spoke of born again believers, it would not make sense at all for him to say he never knew them.
This is what happens to those who take away from the words of the book of this prophecy. God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. (Rev 22:19) They are blotted out of the Lambs book of Life (Psa 69:28) as if they never existed, the same as the sins of the righteous are blotted out in the sea of His forgetfulness never to be remembered against us any more, and Jesus will say to the unrighteous, “I never knew you.”
If their names are blotted out of the Lambs Book of Life is as if He never knew them.
I think it is way more intimate, and personal in my opinion, therefore that is what HE meant when he said, I NEVER NEW YOU!
In the Parable of Ten Virgins, half of those were disciples that NEVER WERE BORN AGAIN. It is not enough to be just Followers, you have to be Born Again, that inner, personal relationship where you have willingly out of LOVE, surrendered to HIM.
You do realize that Paul uses hypothetical questions, right? I think Paul’s education was slightly better than an eighth grader
Hypothetical questions in the bible
Hebrews 2:3
1 Cor 15:29
James 2:14
James 2:16
1 Corinthians 15:32
Mark 8;36
1 Cor 6;15
Etc