Jonah Died and went to Hell

[John146]

He was not talking to Samuel , He was talking to Satan ,Do you not know that was one of the reason GOD says HE killed Saul , FOR trying to talk to the Dead . YOU can't talk to the dead , because the BIBLE says that they don't know anything , Ecc 9 :5 please read , GOD bless as HE sees fit

Eccles. 9:5 does not set the rule for all Scripture. The wisdom being taught there is out of sight, out of mind.

The soul of a man can speak, feel pain, wear robes, etc..

 

[Chris1975]

He was not talking to Samuel , He was talking to Satan ,Do you not know that was one of the reason GOD says HE killed Saul , FOR trying to talk to the Dead . YOU can't talk to the dead , because the BIBLE says that they don't know anything , Ecc 9 :5 please read , GOD bless as HE sees fit

Read post Nr 378 carefully.

 

[John146]

He was not talking to Samuel , He was talking to Satan ,Do you not know that was one of the reason GOD says HE killed Saul , FOR trying to talk to the Dead . YOU can't talk to the dead , because the BIBLE says that they don't know anything , Ecc 9 :5 please read , GOD bless as HE sees fit

Show us specifically where he is talking to Satan, not Samuel.

 

[posthuman]

He was not talking to Samuel , He was talking to Satan ,Do you not know that was one of the reason GOD says HE killed Saul , FOR trying to talk to the Dead . YOU can't talk to the dead , because the BIBLE says that they don't know anything , Ecc 9 :5 please read , GOD bless as HE sees fit

hi bud!
you said, "YOU can't talk to the dead , because the BIBLE says that they don't know anything , Ecc 9 :5"


is Samuel dead as God defines "dead" ?

 

[bud62]

Eccles. 9:5 does not set the rule for all Scripture. The wisdom being taught there is out of sight, out of mind.

The soul of a man can speak, feel pain, wear robes, etc..

I'm sorry for you , If you don't think that Solomon the preacher don't know much more then us . And if the BIBLE disagrees with you in one place , of how we see something , then we are WRONG , THE BIBLE IS write and we haft to line our believes up with the BIBLE ,not the BIBLE up with our believes ,

 

[bud62]

hi bud!
you said, "YOU can't talk to the dead , because the BIBLE says that they don't know anything , Ecc 9 :5"


is Samuel dead as God defines "dead" ?

Samuel is DEAD in His grave , with out even a memory , or love or hate . And he will remain there till JESUS comes AND raises the Dead at HIS second coming ,

 

[John146]

I'm sorry for you , If you don't think that Solomon the preacher don't know much more then us . And if the BIBLE disagrees with you in one place , of how we see something , then we are WRONG , THE BIBLE IS write and we haft to line our believes up with the BIBLE ,not the BIBLE up with our believes ,

I’ll give you another example. The Bible says that man is appointed once to die, and after that the judgment. That’s a general rule of thumb. Enoch did not die. Those caught up to be with the Lord will not suffer death.

Besides, I’ve posted many scriptures showing that the soul of a man can speak, feel pain and wear robes.

 

[bud62]

I’ll give you another example. The Bible says that man is appointed once to die, and after that the judgment. That’s a general rule of thumb. Enoch did not die. Those caught up to be with the Lord will not suffer death.

Besides, I’ve posted many scriptures showing that the soul of a man can speak, feel pain and wear robes.

But the BIBLE dose not teach it . Read Ecc 9:5

 

[John146]

But the BIBLE dose not teach it . Read Ecc 9:5

Revelation 6
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

 

[posthuman]

Samuel is DEAD in His grave , with out even a memory , or love or hate . And he will remain there till JESUS comes AND raises the Dead at HIS second coming ,

ok, you're talking about physical death of the body?
but i mean to ask is it in the flesh that God defines death or in the spirit?

Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection. But in the account of the burning bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive!”
(Luke 20:34-38)
​

when Lazarus' body lay in the grave, Jesus only called him 'dead' because His disciples could not yet understand ((re: John 14:26)) what He was saying to them:

After he had said this, He went on to tell them,
“Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up.”
(John 11:11) ​

if God is the God of the living, as He defines life not as mankind defines life -
then is Samuel dead? as He defines death not as mankind defines death?

 

[oyster67]

OK lets put this to bed once for all.

1 Samuel 28

3 Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had mourned for him and buried him in his own town of Ramah. Saul had expelled the mediums and spiritists from the land.
4 The Philistines assembled and came and set up camp at Shunem, while Saul gathered all Israel and set up camp at Gilboa. 5 When Saul saw the Philistine army, he was afraid; terror filled his heart. 6 He inquired of the Lord, but the Lord did not answer him by dreams or Urim or prophets. 7 Saul then said to his attendants, “Find me a woman who is a medium, so I may go and inquire of her.”
“There is one in Endor,” they said.
8 So Saul disguised himself, putting on other clothes, and at night he and two men went to the woman. “Consult a spirit for me,” he said, “and bring up for me the one I name.”
9 But the woman said to him, “Surely you know what Saul has done. He has cut off the mediums and spiritists from the land. Why have you set a trap for my life to bring about my death?”
10 Saul swore to her by the Lord, “As surely as the Lord lives, you will not be punished for this.”
11 Then the woman asked, “Whom shall I bring up for you?”
“Bring up Samuel,” he said.
12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out at the top of her voice and said to Saul, “Why have you deceived me? You are Saul!”
13 The king said to her, “Don’t be afraid. What do you see?”
The woman said, “I see a ghostly figure coming up out of the earth.”
14 “What does he look like?” he asked.
“An old man wearing a robe is coming up,” she said.
Then Saul knew it was Samuel, and he bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground.
15 Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?”
“I am in great distress,” Saul said. “The Philistines are fighting against me, and God has departed from me. He no longer answers me, either by prophets or by dreams. So I have called on you to tell me what to do.”
16 Samuel said, “Why do you consult me, now that the Lord has departed from you and become your enemy? 17 The Lord has done what he predicted through me. The Lord has torn the kingdom out of your hands and given it to one of your neighbors—to David. 18 Because you did not obey the Lord or carry out his fierce wrath against the Amalekites, the Lord has done this to you today. 19 The Lord will deliver both Israel and you into the hands of the Philistines, and tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The Lord will also give the army of Israel into the hands of the Philistines.”

For my whole life, I had been taught that it was Satan. These posts challenge me to take another look and check things for myself. Are there other references to this event that say definitively that it was Satan?

 

[bud62]

Revelation 6
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

If you can't see that the dead can't talk or fill or praise GOD , It would be very hard to try to show you this in the BIBLE , Just like Abel blood crying out . It was not Abel Crying but HIS blood ,

 

[posthuman]

Read Ecc 9:5

For the living know that they will die,​

but the dead know nothing;​

they have no further reward,​

and even their name is forgotten.
(Ecclesiastes 9:5)
​

the living know that they will die - the dead do not know that they will die.
the dead have no further reward - do the living?
the name of the dead is forgotten - what about the name of the living?

God remembers the name of everyone whose name is written in the Lamb's book of life. He knows His sheep by name. these are the living, as He defines life: He defines eternal life as knowledge of Him ((John 17:3)). to the goats on the left, He says, He never knew them. are these not the dead as He defines life?

Samuel - does he have no further reward?
Samuel - is his name forgotten?

so is Samuel 'dead' by God's definition?
i know that human definition of death is only that of the flesh. when i read what Christ says, i do not think His definition of life and death is the same as the human definition.

 

[bud62]

For my whole life, I had been taught that it was Satan. These posts challenge me to take another look and check things for myself. Are there other references to this event that say definitively that it was Satan?

YES YES YES YES ,Ecc9:5 ,IT only thkes one place , THE BIBLE DONT lie .

 

[bud62]

For the living know that they will die,​

but the dead know nothing;​

they have no further reward,​

and even their name is forgotten. ​

(Ecclesiastes 9:5) ​

​

the living know that they will die - the dead do not know that they will die.
the dead have no further reward - do the living?
the name of the dead is forgotten - what about the name of the living?

God remembers the name of everyone whose name is written in the Lamb's book of life. He knows His sheep by name. these are the living, as He defines life: He defines eternal life as knowledge of Him ((John 17:3)). to the goats on the left, He says, He never knew them. are these not the dead as He defines life?

Samuel - does he have no further reward?
Samuel - is his name forgotten?

so is Samuel 'dead' by God's definition?
i know that human definition of death is only that of the flesh. when i read what Christ says, i do not think His definition of life and death is the same as the human definition.

I do not ether believe it's the same ether

 

[John146]

If you can't see that the dead can't talk or fill or praise GOD , It would be very hard to try to show you this in the BIBLE , Just like Abel blood crying out . It was not Abel Crying but HIS blood ,

The body dies, but the soul of a man continues to live. Are you saying the revelation passage is not literal, but descriptive?

 

[Chris1975]

But the BIBLE dose not teach it . Read Ecc 9:5

Ok, we must be ready to give you an answer, because the scriptures are always in harmony and don't contradict. So lets analyse what Solomon is saying. We will put the surrounding verses:

Ecclesiastes 9
3 This is an evil in all that is done under the sun: that one thing happens to all. Truly the hearts of the sons of men are full of evil; madness is in their hearts while they live, and after that they go to the dead. 4 But for him who is joined to all the living there is hope, for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
5 For the living know that they will die;
But the dead know nothing,
And they have no more reward,
For the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished;
Nevermore will they have a share
In anything done under the sun.

- This piece's CONTEXT is between the red verses above. The context is "what is done under the sun" - in other words the activities on mankind on the earth.
-The Dead DO NOT KNOW WHAT HAPPENS ON THE SURFACE OF THE EARTH. THEY ARE NOT AWARE OF THE GOINGS ON ANYMORE. THEY DONT KNOW WHO THE PRESIDENT OF THE US IS. THEY DONT KNOW WHAT THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS ARE DOING, etc. THEY KNOW NOTHING.

Lets repost the above verses but with the "Dead" inserted to bring the verses to life (mind the anti-pun)


3 This is an evil in all that is done under the sun: that one thing happens to all. Truly the hearts of the sons of men are full of evil; madness is in their hearts while they live, and after that they go to the dead. 4 But for him who is joined to all the living there is hope, for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
5 For the living know that they will die;
But the dead know nothing,
And the dead have no more reward,
For the memory of the dead is forgotten.
6 Also their (the dead's) love, their (the dead's) hatred, and their (the dead's) envy have now perished;
Nevermore will the dead have a share
In anything done under the sun.

Reading this now makes sense in light of the above explanation.

 

[posthuman]

For my whole life, I had been taught that it was Satan. These posts challenge me to take another look and check things for myself. Are there other references to this event that say definitively that it was Satan?

i don't know of any. i was *mostly* taught from my youth that a demon raised by the witch at Endor was pretending to be Samuel. but also when i was young, i noticed that the text itself in no way gives that impression: it speaks of the spirit as Samuel, calls him Samuel, and in every regard is written just as if it was indeed Samuel. the witch herself is portrayed as shocked by what happens and doesn't have the same demeanor afterwards. so i recognized that what i was being taught was based on certain presuppositions rather than on what the text itself literally was saying; if i didn't have those presuppositions when i first read it i would not come away with that interpretation simply from the account itself. it was only later in life that i ever heard someone speak about the passage from the point of view that when it says Samuel, it actually does mean Samuel.

do we apply the same suppositions when we read about Moses appearing at the transfiguration? his body was hidden - but Exodus 34:5 does say he died.

i guess y'all can tell, personally, i think that was Samuel, and i think i can defend that position.

 

[Chris1975]

i don't know of any. i was *mostly* taught from my youth that a demon raised by the witch at Endor was pretending to be Samuel. but also when i was young, i noticed that the text itself in no way gives that impression: it speaks of the spirit as Samuel, calls him Samuel, and in every regard is written just as if it was indeed Samuel. the witch herself is portrayed as shocked by what happens and doesn't have the same demeanor afterwards. so i recognized that what i was being taught was based on certain presuppositions rather than on what the text itself literally was saying; if i didn't have those presuppositions when i first read it i would not come away with that interpretation simply from the account itself. it was only later in life that i ever heard someone speak about the passage from the point of view that when it says Samuel, it actually does mean Samuel.

do we apply the same suppositions when we read about Moses appearing at the transfiguration? his body was hidden - but Exodus 34:5 does say he died.

i guess y'all can tell, personally, i think that was Samuel, and i think i can defend that position.

And verses 16 to 19 prove you are right.

 

[posthuman]

YEP.......you say JONAH did what JESUS did and the verse you cite does not say Jonah DIED and then RESURRECTED

bro some things to consider:

Christ is THE sign of Jonah. He resurrects Himself, and He is THE Resurrection and the life. He is greater than someone whom God resurrected - like the boy Elijah stretched himself out over 3 times, and the man whose corpse touched Elisha's bones, and Lazarus after 4 days. the people He said the men of Ninevah would rise up and judge are the same people about whom He said, even if one were to rise from the dead being sent to them, they would not be persuaded to believe.

IMO Jonah dying and being resurrected in the belly of the fish doesn't raise any offense