Jonah Died and went to Hell

[Whispered]

Emphasis is not anger.. ...... but if you see red print that could be indicative of extreme indignation ... especially when connected to Jesus and His work .. and I believe rightly so.

We need to be more intolerant and rebut doctrine that seeks to take away from the glory of Christ Jesus.

How would you say Matthew 12 takes away from the glory of Christ?

 

[EleventhHour]

How would you say Matthew 12 takes away from the glory of Christ?

Instead of me reiterating read this post.

https://christianchat.com/threads/jonah-died-and-went-to-hell.189699/post-4137214

 

[dcontroversal]

After dying with our sins upon Him, He then took those sins and deposited them in hell. He did not ascend to heaven with our sins still upon Him.

As the scapegoat carried all the sins of Israel into the wilderness, so the Lord took our sins away into the wilderness of hell.

The bible does not say that at all....and eh scapegoat was SYMBOLIC of what happened to the sins of ISRAEL....they were NEVER forgiven under the sacrifice of bulls and goats......and my bible states CHRIST became SIN for us, BORE our sin on the CROSS, covered our sin with his blood and the covenant was ratified by HIS DEATH.....

NO where does it say he deposited them IN HELL.....again another streeeeeeeetttttttccccccccchhhhhhhhhh and assumption with no scriptural basis.

 

[Whispered]

Instead of me reiterating read this post.

https://christianchat.com/threads/jonah-died-and-went-to-hell.189699/post-4137214

I know that post. They are unable to grasp Matthew 12. It puts them to sleep. zzzz's.
I wasn't asking DC. I was asking you.

 

[EleventhHour]

I know that post. They are unable to grasp Matthew 12. It puts them to sleep. zzzz's.
I wasn't asking DC. I was asking you.

Well I am cleaning my house at the moment.. so a little distracted but I will come back to it.

 

[John146]

The oceans and does not matter.....it is symbolic of being in the fish and his expected demise.......hence praying and begging for deliverance....

Listen....You will not change my mind....the evidence is NOT there to support what you guys are peddling....especially saying a man died, went to hell, suffered, prayed and then came BACK......HE was A HOLY man of GOD (per PETER's statement) HE got thrown over board, prays in the process of drowning, is delivered by being swallowed, suffers in the fish's belly, voices this in pray and compares it to numerous things symbolically, prays, is delivered and puked UP and does exactly what GOD told him to do.......there are NO verses that states he died and resurrected and absolutely NO verses that state a man can die, go to hell, suffer and COME BACK and NO verses in context that states verbatim that JESUS deposited our sins in HELL.......

Believe what you will migo.....the evidence POINTS me to a different conclusion.....end of story!

Bars, mountains, etc...all symbolic language and not literal? Ok. How do we know the whale is not symbolic like the rest of the chapter? Pick and choose? Never mind, not getting anywhere. Thanks for your input.

 

[John146]

The bible does not say that at all....and eh scapegoat was SYMBOLIC of what happened to the sins of ISRAEL....they were NEVER forgiven under the sacrifice of bulls and goats......and my bible states CHRIST became SIN for us, BORE our sin on the CROSS, covered our sin with his blood and the covenant was ratified by HIS DEATH.....

NO where does it say he deposited them IN HELL.....again another streeeeeeeetttttttccccccccchhhhhhhhhh and assumption with no scriptural basis.

First, there sins were forgiven under the proper sacrifice, forgiven but not washed away. Our sins are not simply covered, but washed away. They’re no longer there!

21 And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:
22 And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness.

 

[Whispered]

Well I am cleaning my house at the moment.. so a little distracted but I will come back to it.

I know how that can be. I appreciate you attention to the query, and at your convenience.

 

[John146]

The bible does not say that at all....and eh scapegoat was SYMBOLIC of what happened to the sins of ISRAEL....they were NEVER forgiven under the sacrifice of bulls and goats......and my bible states CHRIST became SIN for us, BORE our sin on the CROSS, covered our sin with his blood and the covenant was ratified by HIS DEATH.....

NO where does it say he deposited them IN HELL.....again another streeeeeeeetttttttccccccccchhhhhhhhhh and assumption with no scriptural basis.

Just a few...

Leviticus 19:22 And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the Lord for his sin which he hath done: and the sin which he hath done shall be forgiven him.

Leviticus 5:13 And the priest shall make an atonement for him as touching his sin that he hath sinned in one of these, and it shall be forgiven him: and the remnant shall be the priest's, as a meat offering.

 

[John146]

Just a few...

Leviticus 19:22 And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the Lord for his sin which he hath done: and the sin which he hath done shall be forgiven him.

Leviticus 5:13 And the priest shall make an atonement for him as touching his sin that he hath sinned in one of these, and it shall be forgiven him: and the remnant shall be the priest's, as a meat offering.

Sins forgiven, but not cleared.

Exodus 34:7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

The blood of animals could forgive sins, but not take them away.

Hebrews 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

 

[garee]

The verbiage is not the same, it does not say JONAH died or gave up the ghost, it does not say Jonah resurrected or stood again NOTHING matches the descriptions of what JESUS went through.....the belly of the fish was SYMBOLIC only of the heart of the earth and what JESUS would DO and JONAH'S perception is SEEN in his words.....Nothing MORE, NOTHING LESS.....!

It does not say he drowned. It say is was a living work. By reason of suffering the pangs of hell. Like Christ's living sacrifice.

Heart of the earth finds its meaning with the curse God put on the earth in Genesis 4 . Bottom line is how literal blood is used to represent the unseen . Blood represent the unseen spirit . Literal blood without the spirit has no life. The same with the corrupted heart of the earth or the belly of hell.

 

[garee]

Sins forgiven, but not cleared.

Exodus 34:7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

The blood of animals could forgive sins, but not take them away.

Hebrews 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

The blood of animals could never take away sin. Just like the literal blood of the Son of man, Jesus could not. Jesus says clearly His flesh profits for nothing, zero .

Carnal, ceremonial as a shadow until the time of reformation. That time came two thousand years ago. The shadow disappeared

 

[wolfwint]

The Bible calls the "belly of the whale hell" a place of living suffering. .Its the same thing as saying the "heart of the corrupted earth".

Thanks, where is the bible verse please?

 

[bud62]

I am posting this topic because of the chatroom question raised over Jonah in the belly of the fish, and all of the surrounding debate around this. I believe the bible can be taken literally in terms of what transpired. Lets analyse these verses:

Jonah 1
17 Now the Lord had prepared a great fish to swallow Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.
Jonah 2
2 Then Jonah prayed to the Lord his God from the fish’s belly. 2 And he said:
“I cried out to the Lord because of my affliction,
And He answered me.
“Out of the belly of Sheol I cried,
And You heard my voice.
3 For You cast me into the deep,
Into the heart of the seas,
And the floods surrounded me;
All Your billows and Your waves passed over me.
4 Then I said, ‘I have been cast out of Your sight;
Yet I will look again toward Your holy temple.’
5 The waters surrounded me, even to my soul;
The deep closed around me;
Weeds were wrapped around my head.
6 I went down to the moorings of the mountains;
The earth with its bars closed behind me forever;
Yet You have brought up my life from the pit,
O Lord, my God.
7 “When my soul fainted within me,
I remembered the Lord;
And my prayer went up to You,
Into Your holy temple.
8 “Those who regard worthless idols
Forsake their own [b]Mercy.
9 But I will sacrifice to You
With the voice of thanksgiving;
I will pay what I have vowed.
Salvation is of the Lord.”
10 So the Lord spoke to the fish, and it vomited Jonah onto dry land.

>We can take this account from Jonah LITERALLY. He was swallowed by a fish. He (his BODY) was in the fish 3 days. There is no suitable living environment within a fish (air pocket, condominium, economy class seating). Jonah died. He wasn't being preserved alive within the fish.
>Jonah gives the account - out of Sheol (Hell) he cried out. This is not to create a precedent that others can cry out from hell and be delivered in the same way. No. It just means that God is sovereign and can do as He pleases. He can bring low and He can lift up.
>Jonah's body was in the fish but his soul was in Sheol.
>Hell looks to be a place under the earth for this is where Jonah describes it.
>We also see with the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, the rich man saying engaging with Father Abraham. Conversation/communication is possible within this spiritual nether realm.
>So it is not impossible for Jonah to call out to God from Sheol, and his prayer went up to the Holy Temple.

Now we have an interesting account coming from the Words of our Lord:

Matthew 12
38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You."
39 But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
>Jonah Died and Jesus Died.
>Jonah was alive after 3 days, Jesus was alive after 3 days.

Ecclesiastes 9:4-10 Tells us that the dead don't know any thing ,neither have they any more a reward ; for the memory of them is forgotten , also their love , & their hatred , & their envy , is now perished ; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun .
The dead don't talk , The dead don't prey , The dead Can't praise the LORD , & don't have memory ,
SO THE BIBLE TELLS US THAT JONAH WAS JUST AS MUCH A LIVE AS WE ARE RIGHT NOW . The BIBLE dose NOT contradict itself .
GOD BLESS ALL AS HE SEES FIT.

 

[Chris1975]

Ecclesiastes 9:4-10 Tells us that the dead don't know any thing ,neither have they any more a reward ; for the memory of them is forgotten , also their love , & their hatred , & their envy , is now perished ; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun .
The dead don't talk , The dead don't prey , The dead Can't praise the LORD , & don't have memory ,
SO THE BIBLE TELLS US THAT JONAH WAS JUST AS MUCH A LIVE AS WE ARE RIGHT NOW . The BIBLE dose NOT contradict itself .
GOD BLESS ALL AS HE SEES FIT.

I'm the account of Lazarus and the Rich man, it says both died. In Hades, the Rich man addresses Abraham. A whole conversation ensues.

 

[bud62]

Thanks, where is the bible verse please?

He was suffering in the Belly of the Fish . The fishes belly was trying to digest him , I would think he would have been burning because of the acid in the belly of the fish . It contradict the BIBLE , to say that he was dead .

 

[Chris1975]

He was suffering in the Belly of the Fish . The fishes belly was trying to digest him , I would think he would have been burning because of the acid in the belly of the fish . It contradict the BIBLE , to say that he was dead .

Jonah called it Sheol (A physical place of torment of the dead). If it wasn't Sheol then the bible lied. And the bible doesn't lie.

 

[pottersclay]

Jesus was not dead nor tormented in hell, he went to release the captives preaching the good news.
Same as Jonah, he was alive inside the belly of the great fish. He referenced it as if he were in hell.
Totally dark, humid,whales are mammals 98 degrees inside. Reference to mountains are when the whale sounded in the depths of the ocean which seemed to Jonah in the dark as up and down mountains.
Death could not hold Jesus.
Jonah was swallowed up by the command of God. For the Lord prepared a great fish for that reason.
Jesus gives credit to the story as he tells it in reference to his death and resurrection.
Jonah was very much alive.

 

[bud62]

Jonah called it Sheol (A physical place of torment of the dead). If it wasn't Sheol then the bible lied. And the bible doesn't lie.

And we would have though it was too if we had been in there , acid burns ,The dead are in their GRAVES A sleep & don't know any thin.

 

[bud62]

And we would have though it was too if we had been in there , acid burns ,The dead are in their GRAVES A sleep & don't know any thing , SORRY I left off the G .