Consider the spirit

[DancingForJesus]

Hello, all.

I wanted to touch on the topic of considering the spirit. Meaning that, whenever someone says anything or writes anything, whether they are a follower of Jesus or not, you should consider the spirit with which they have done so. The Holy Spirit gives us discernment of the many different spirits that walk the earth. So as a follower of Jesus, it is of the utmost importance that you trust the discernment and innate judgement that is given to you by the Holy Spirit, our gift from our Lord Jesus.

This is especially true where it concerns leaders in religion. I've met pastors who were nothing but condemnation, and pastors who were nothing but love. Which is better to walk in, condemnation or love? As 1 Corinthians 13 states, without love, we are nothing. So it is much better then to walk in love.

So when the one who walks in condemnation speaks out against you, who are a follower of Jesus, what does your spirit say? Is there a shadow of judgment cast down upon it? Of condemnation? Of oppression? Then cast it off and hear their words no more. For when God sends one of His servants to bring the lost to repentance, it is not done through condemnation, through the "holier than thou, evil sinner" attitude. It is done through love, for God Himself is love. God loves us so much that He sent His one and only son to be our savior; He considered us worth saving! So God's servants walk in love and with great humbleness, and do not speak from a place of arrogance, power, or condemnation.

Since the time of Jesus, man has created many religions, many different sects which are all known under the single branch of Christianity. There are many different interpretations of the scriptures. And in this, again, God charges us to use our discernment. He may send others to instruct us, but it is ultimately up to each of us as individuals to seek God ourselves through prayer and through study, and to read the scriptures ourselves, where the Holy Spirit will lead us in truth. For those who are led in truth by the Holy Spirit, and lean not on their own understanding but rather that which is given and taught to them by God through the Holy Spirit, these people will find themselves all in one accord.

 

[Deuteronomy]

This is especially true where it concerns leaders in religion. I've met pastors who were nothing but condemnation, and pastors who were nothing but love. Which is better to walk in, condemnation or love? As 1 Corinthians 13 states, without love, we are nothing. So it is much better then to walk in love.

Hello DancingForJesus, while I like your OP, and I do not disagree with anything that you said in particular, I will say this, the longer that I am a Christian, the more I see that the Christian life is one that needs to be lived with a sense of balance.

I think that this is true in the case of the polar opposites that you mentioned in your OP. IOW, while we must not present God's truth to others apart from love (because that ends up being condemning and useless ... 1 Corinthians 13:1-3), neither can we be truly loving, as God would have us be "loving", apart from His truth.

As the Apostle tells us later (in the same Chapter),

1 Corinthians 13​

6 Love .. does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth.​

God is perhaps best described in the Bible by three nouns (every other word that describes Him there is an adjective), and they are, God is spirit, God is love, and God is light. So, while God is "love", He is also (at the same time/to no lesser degree), "light". So, if we do not approach Him with that understanding (that He is both, and that His attributes always work together, not against each other), then I don't believe that we can ever hope to come to a proper understanding of who He really is.

As Christians, we are always called to "speak the truth", His truth (to be both "light" and "salt" in this world .. Matthew 5:14-16), but we must always do so, "in love" .. Ephesians 4:15. Unfortunately, many seek to be "loving" to others in a way that God never intended, 'apart' from His truth, which does the listener (whose ears are being tickled) no more good (at least, in the eternal sense) than the person who speaks the truth to them, apart from love.

That all said, I get being on the "too loving" side of things, because I am, unfortunately, a people-pleaser by nature. Therefore, I am rarely, if ever, condemning of others, but I have often been guilty of telling others (who know that I am a Christian, BTW) what I think they 'want' to hear, while doing what I can to avoid speaking the truth to them (which they need to hear). Sadly, this remains a battle for me, even after 33+ years as a Christian

Blessings to you in Christ,
Deut
p.s. - sorry for going on so long. Perhaps it would have been better if I just left it at, living the Christian life is a balancing act That said, here is a closing thought from pastor/theologian Charles H. Spurgeon.

​

 

[DancingForJesus]

Hello DancingForJesus, while I like your OP, and I do not disagree with anything that you said in particular, I will say this, the longer that I am a Christian, the more I see that the Christian life is one that needs to be lived with a sense of balance.

I think that this is true in the case of the polar opposites that you mentioned in your OP. IOW, while we must not present God's truth to others apart from love (because that ends up being condemning and useless ... 1 Corinthians 13:1-3), neither can we be truly loving, as God would have us be "loving", apart from His truth.

As the Apostle tells us later (in the same Chapter),

1 Corinthians 13​

6 Love .. does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth.​

God is perhaps best described in the Bible by three nouns (every other word that describes Him there is an adjective), and they are, God is spirit, God is love, and God is light. So, while God is "love", He is also (at the same time/to no lesser degree), "light". So, if we do not approach Him with that understanding (that He is both, and that His attributes always work together, not against each other), then I don't believe that we can ever hope to come to a proper understanding of who He really is.

As Christians, we are always called to "speak the truth", His truth (to be both "light" and "salt" in this world .. Matthew 5:14-16), but we must always do so, "in love" .. Ephesians 4:15. Unfortunately, many seek to be "loving" to others in a way that God never intended, 'apart' from His truth, which does the listener (whose ears are being tickled) no more good (at least, in the eternal sense) than the person who speaks the truth to them, apart from love.

That all said, I get being on the "too loving" side of things, because I am, unfortunately, a people-pleaser by nature. Therefore, I am rarely, if ever, condemning of others, but I have often been guilty of telling others (who know that I am a Christian, BTW) what I think they 'want' to hear, while doing what I can to avoid speaking the truth to them (which they need to hear). Sadly, this remains a battle for me, even after 33+ years as a Christian

Blessings to you in Christ,
Deut
p.s. - sorry for going on so long. Perhaps it would have been better if I just left it at, living the Christian life is a balancing act That said, here is a closing thought from pastor/theologian Charles H. Spurgeon.

View attachment 209767​

What you said is true.
I myself have been guilty of the opposite of you. I in my past have been unloving. Let me explain. I have very good discernment of people, more so about their intentions than the person themselves, given to me by the Holy Spirit. And I have used that discernment to treat them coldly, for which I feel guilty and repentant of. I have to be careful to not use discernment that tells me to be cautious as a reason to not show the love and light of Jesus to that person.

As far as being truly loving, since love does indeed rejoice in truth, then I think we can be truly loving while also giving correction where God guides us to. That is key, since if the Holy Spirit did not send you to correct that person, they are probably not ready to hear it, and it will fall on a hard heart and deaf ears.
Back to the point I started that paragraph with, I can find examples of a harsh correction done in love in my own life.
I'm a horse person, and have trained horses. My own horse had a lot of dangerous, bad habits. With horses and animals in general, it is important that your correction be somewhat harsh, so as to be memorable, but over quickly and swiftly (like a solid smack on the rump for horses), and then you go on as if nothing happened. For example, I would do such a correction if a horse kicked out at me, because such a horse could kill a person with that behavior, and it could even lead to their death someday since they might be considered too dangerous and a liability. So the kindest and most loving thing that I could do in that situation is to put a stop to the behavior so the horse never wanted to do it again. But, then I would go on as normal, and not be holding a grudge against the horse, or expecting them to do it again, or reminding them that they did wrong.
I have a similar story about my daughter, who is currently a toddler. Last week as I was holding her in my arms, she reached her hand toward a boiling pot of water. The loud and sharp NO! that she heard from me nearly put her in tears. But of course, the most loving thing to do was to stop her from harming herself, and hopefully it's something that she will remember.

Love isn't always soft hugs and warm cuddles and kind, reassuring words. Sometimes it's a harsh correction, done without holding a grudge. I think such correction should always be Holy Spirit led when it comes to people, otherwise it can come across as condemnation and be, as you said, useless. Likewise, we cannot condone sinful ways and turn a blind eye. However, we can show love to a person without agreeing with everything that they do.

Something I will always remember from my atheist friend is that she said that she was curious about Christianity, but most Christians got very upset when she would ask questions. My husband and I were the first that she had encountered that would talk about Christianity openly and in a welcoming environment. It's the difference of walking in condemnation or walking in humbleness and love.
(My friend is still an atheist to my knowledge. I only knew her for a year and have since moved away, and we haven't kept in touch. I do believe that our discussions with her planted a seed though, and I pray for her salvation, since she is one of the most loving and beautiful (inside and out) person I've ever met.

As the old saying goes, "you'll catch more flies with honey," not that the lost are flies.

(I'm very long winded in writing, apologies.)

 

[Deade]

For those who are led in truth by the Holy Spirit, and lean not on their own understanding but rather that which is given and taught to them by God through the Holy Spirit, these people will find themselves all in one accord.

Yet, we look around and seldom find any group "in one accord." Satan is very good at his job as antichrist. Of course, he has been at it a long time. The hardest part of my learning from the Spirit of Truth was my religious traditions. I am not worried, God has it all under control. I still say traditional Christianity has God as a sadist.

 

[DancingForJesus]

Yet, we look around and seldom find any group "in one accord." Satan is very good at his job as antichrist. Of course, he has been at it a long time. The hardest part of my learning from the Spirit of Truth was my religious traditions. I am not worried, God has it all under control. I still say traditional Christianity has God as a sadist.

I can't say I disagree with you there. I consider myself a follower of Jesus, rather than of religion.
If you wouldn't mind though, I'd like to hear you go a bit more in depth on that last statement. Could you explain a bit more?

 

[Deade]

I can't say I disagree with you there. I consider myself a follower of Jesus, rather than of religion.
If you wouldn't mind though, I'd like to hear you go a bit more in depth on that last statement. Could you explain a bit more?

Well most Christians admit that Christ said broad is the way to destruction, but narrow is the path to life and few find it (Matt. 7:13). Many Christians are lost today because they serve a false spirit of deception.

Yet most Christians are okay with their being tortured forever in flames because they were deceived. I am not okay with that, and I think that God is not done with those people yet.

Most will have their chance to really serve Christ (the only name for salvation) in the Great White Throne Judgment.

 

[Aerials1978]

Well most Christians admit that Christ said broad is the way to destruction, but narrow is the path to life and few find it (Matt. 7:13). Many Christians are lost today because they serve a false spirit of deception.

Yet most Christians are okay with their being tortured forever in flames because they were deceived. I am not okay with that, and I think that God is not done with those people yet.

Most will have their chance to really serve Christ (the only name for salvation) in the Great White Throne Judgment. View attachment 210028

There are too many in my opinion that are hooked on this hyper-grace preaching. The feel good aspect. I always wanted to ask some “Do you have a sense of conviction when you leave service? Or do you have mentality of I’m ok and your ok and God loves us all?”

 

[Deade]

There are too many in my opinion that are hooked on this hyper-grace preaching. The feel good aspect. I always wanted to ask some “Do you have a sense of conviction when you leave service? Or do you have mentality of I’m ok and your ok and God loves us all?”

What are you referring to as hyper-grace in my statements? I thought that was the name-it/claim it doctrine. My point was on God's salvation plan for all mankind. Or do you think Christ only died for the first-fruits church?

 

[3angelsmsg]

There are too many in my opinion that are hooked on this hyper-grace preaching. The feel good aspect. I always wanted to ask some “Do you have a sense of conviction when you leave service? Or do you have mentality of I’m ok and your ok and God loves us all?”

I like what you commented. Many times, we know our own hearts. And most times we know where we stand with God. Sadly, we ourselves numb the power of God in our lives. We do not reflect the light to the world and our actions is not with love of God. Which will amount to nothing.

I feel that we as christians of today is happy with the mediocre life. Our foot is one in the world and other in the kingdom.

Deception is huge problem. We sometimes think we have received grace yet we walk in pride and unforgiveness. We ought to overcome those challenges.

God wants to make us whole. If Christians will really believe, as it is written plainly and allow the Holy spirit to guide us.

 

[Aerials1978]

What are you referring to as hyper-grace in my statements? I thought that was the name-it/claim it doctrine. My point was on God's salvation plan for all mankind. Or do you think Christ only died for the first-fruits church?

Hyper-Grace could be compared the to Name it/Claim movement. It’s all about God wanting to bless you with happiness and prosperity. Hardly if ever is Gods wrath discussed or the conviction of sin. I’m not sure what you mean by the first fruit church though.

 

[Aerials1978]

I like what you commented. Many times, we know our own hearts. And most times we know where we stand with God. Sadly, we ourselves numb the power of God in our lives. We do not reflect the light to the world and our actions is not with love of God. Which will amount to nothing.

I feel that we as christians of today is happy with the mediocre life. Our foot is one in the world and other in the kingdom.

Deception is huge problem. We sometimes think we have received grace yet we walk in pride and unforgiveness. We ought to overcome those challenges.

God wants to make us whole. If Christians will really believe, as it is written plainly and allow the Holy spirit to guide us.

I do know what you mean about one foot in the world. I was like that and have to make sure I don’t slowly start that again.

 

[Deade]

Hyper-Grace could be compared the to Name it/Claim movement. It’s all about God wanting to bless you with happiness and prosperity. Hardly if ever is Gods wrath discussed or the conviction of sin. I’m not sure what you mean by the first fruit church though.

The first-fruits church: The small peculiar group (Titus 2:14; 1 Pet. 2:9).

Rev. 5:10 "And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth."

Rev. 20:6 "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

 

[Lanolin]

your post made me think of people who hold grudges. Unfortunately, people in church also do this, remind you of something wrong you did ages ago and never let you forget it, labelling you and treating you badly afterwards, or with complete disdain, even after you ask for forgiveness.

This is unlike God, whos mercies are new each morning, and when our sins are forgiven, are also forgotten as far as east is from the west.

 

[Deade]

your post made me think of people who hold grudges. Unfortunately, people in church also do this, remind you of something wrong you did ages ago and never let you forget it, labelling you and treating you badly afterwards, or with complete disdain, even after you ask for forgiveness.

This is unlike God, whos mercies are new each morning, and when our sins are forgiven, are also forgotten as far as east is from the west.

Is there a post you are addressing here? How are we to know to whom you speak?

 

[EliBeth]

Hello DancingForJesus, while I like your OP, and I do not disagree with anything that you said in particular, I will say this, the longer that I am a Christian, the more I see that the Christian life is one that needs to be lived with a sense of balance.

I think that this is true in the case of the polar opposites that you mentioned in your OP. IOW, while we must not present God's truth to others apart from love (because that ends up being condemning and useless ... 1 Corinthians 13:1-3), neither can we be truly loving, as God would have us be "loving", apart from His truth.

As the Apostle tells us later (in the same Chapter),

1 Corinthians 13​

6 Love .. does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth.​

God is perhaps best described in the Bible by three nouns (every other word that describes Him there is an adjective), and they are, God is spirit, God is love, and God is light. So, while God is "love", He is also (at the same time/to no lesser degree), "light". So, if we do not approach Him with that understanding (that He is both, and that His attributes always work together, not against each other), then I don't believe that we can ever hope to come to a proper understanding of who He really is.

As Christians, we are always called to "speak the truth", His truth (to be both "light" and "salt" in this world .. Matthew 5:14-16), but we must always do so, "in love" .. Ephesians 4:15. Unfortunately, many seek to be "loving" to others in a way that God never intended, 'apart' from His truth, which does the listener (whose ears are being tickled) no more good (at least, in the eternal sense) than the person who speaks the truth to them, apart from love.

That all said, I get being on the "too loving" side of things, because I am, unfortunately, a people-pleaser by nature. Therefore, I am rarely, if ever, condemning of others, but I have often been guilty of telling others (who know that I am a Christian, BTW) what I think they 'want' to hear, while doing what I can to avoid speaking the truth to them (which they need to hear). Sadly, this remains a battle for me, even after 33+ years as a Christian

Blessings to you in Christ,
Deut
p.s. - sorry for going on so long. Perhaps it would have been better if I just left it at, living the Christian life is a balancing act That said, here is a closing thought from pastor/theologian Charles H. Spurgeon.

View attachment 209767​

Well said, Sir. I was trying to relay this idea a few weeks ago in another thread. I can so identify with your not wanting to confront people, for I am like that to. And, to be honest, it is rare for me to ever do it. But the Bible teaches lovingly addressing other Christians' habitual sin and we must respect it's verdict on the matter whether we are particularly comfortable with it or fond of it or not. But, shew!, do we have to be sure we are right in our own heart and life first.

I will say, after I made those posts in the other thread about this subject, God has emphasized His love and grace to me considerably. So I am grateful for His continual molding and work to get me exactly where I need to be. He is Good above all things.

What you said is true.
I myself have been guilty of the opposite of you. I in my past have been unloving. Let me explain. I have very good discernment of people, more so about their intentions than the person themselves, given to me by the Holy Spirit. And I have used that discernment to treat them coldly, for which I feel guilty and repentant of. I have to be careful to not use discernment that tells me to be cautious as a reason to not show the love and light of Jesus to that person.

As far as being truly loving, since love does indeed rejoice in truth, then I think we can be truly loving while also giving correction where God guides us to. That is key, since if the Holy Spirit did not send you to correct that person, they are probably not ready to hear it, and it will fall on a hard heart and deaf ears.
Back to the point I started that paragraph with, I can find examples of a harsh correction done in love in my own life.
I'm a horse person, and have trained horses. My own horse had a lot of dangerous, bad habits. With horses and animals in general, it is important that your correction be somewhat harsh, so as to be memorable, but over quickly and swiftly (like a solid smack on the rump for horses), and then you go on as if nothing happened. For example, I would do such a correction if a horse kicked out at me, because such a horse could kill a person with that behavior, and it could even lead to their death someday since they might be considered too dangerous and a liability. So the kindest and most loving thing that I could do in that situation is to put a stop to the behavior so the horse never wanted to do it again. But, then I would go on as normal, and not be holding a grudge against the horse, or expecting them to do it again, or reminding them that they did wrong.
I have a similar story about my daughter, who is currently a toddler. Last week as I was holding her in my arms, she reached her hand toward a boiling pot of water. The loud and sharp NO! that she heard from me nearly put her in tears. But of course, the most loving thing to do was to stop her from harming herself, and hopefully it's something that she will remember.

Love isn't always soft hugs and warm cuddles and kind, reassuring words. Sometimes it's a harsh correction, done without holding a grudge. I think such correction should always be Holy Spirit led when it comes to people, otherwise it can come across as condemnation and be, as you said, useless. Likewise, we cannot condone sinful ways and turn a blind eye. However, we can show love to a person without agreeing with everything that they do.

Something I will always remember from my atheist friend is that she said that she was curious about Christianity, but most Christians got very upset when she would ask questions. My husband and I were the first that she had encountered that would talk about Christianity openly and in a welcoming environment. It's the difference of walking in condemnation or walking in humbleness and love.
(My friend is still an atheist to my knowledge. I only knew her for a year and have since moved away, and we haven't kept in touch. I do believe that our discussions with her planted a seed though, and I pray for her salvation, since she is one of the most loving and beautiful (inside and out) person I've ever met.

As the old saying goes, "you'll catch more flies with honey," not that the lost are flies.

(I'm very long winded in writing, apologies.)

I enjoyed reading this! Great analogy!

I wonder if perhaps one reason most of the Christians your atheist friend talked to would get mad at her questions was because they were unsure about how to answer... Sometimes we, as humans, can get stressed when we don't know how to defend something and it comes out as attack.

 

[Lanolin]

Is there a post you are addressing here? How are we to know to whom you speak?

sorry I am addressing the OP. The topic of this thread.
not you personally otherwise I would reply to you.