Apostasy 101

[Noose]

John 10:26-29
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Yes He gives eternal life but when?

1 John 2:24As for you, let what you have heard from the beginning remain in you. If it does, you will also remain in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is the promise that He Himself made to us: eternal life.

Heb 10:36You need to persevere, so that after you have done the will of God, you will receive what He has promised.

Rom 2:6God “will repay each one according to his deeds.”a 7To those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life.

 

[Enxu]

Of the spies that spied out the land how many were wheat and how many were tares?

Who entered the land from that generation and who did not?


The wheat was separated from the tares and the tares did not go in.

The problem is only you guys are making the distinction now between the tares and the wheat when even the apostles did not distinguish that in their epistles and simply addressed their warnings to ALL.

So did the tares in your eyes ever believe in God or not? If not, what is the reason for God saving them out of Egypt? Don’t give me unscriptural reasons.

In fact, I have scriptures that will say ALL of Israel believed in God through Moses before their physical deliverance, even those you labelled as tares. That is why all of Israel used Lamb’s blood on their doorposts during the time when God destroyed the firstborn of Egypt. So even the “tares” truly believed in the beginning. Lol

 

[Grandpa]

Besides why does Paul write this if no one saved can lose their faith (and hence their salvation):

Therefore, consider God's kindness and severity: severity toward those who have fallen but God's kindness toward you--if you remain in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Same chapter

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The children of God are born again from above. Birth isn’t determined by behavior. The warnings are there for individuals to examine themselves to see if they indeed have been born again.

The child of God will be corrected for his behavior, not cast into the lake of fire.
Really kinda insulting to God our Father to say He would toss His kids into hell for misbehaving.

thats the part they do not get. How bad they insult God!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Btw, I’m still wondering why God saved an entire generation of Israel from Egypt which later perished in disbelief when according to you, they never had true saving faith to begin with. Care to clarify?

you ever read the story?

They never had faith, the complained when they left. They complained when they got to the river, They complained about the manna, They complained and talked Arron into building a Golden calf. They wanted so bad to go back to Egypt. where their true faith lay. they complained almost every day. ITS why they did not enter. God did the work to free them, but they rejected his work.

How you think they were ever saved is beyond me

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So why did God first save and then destroy those who did not believe? Why didn’t He destroy them at the very beginning by leaving them in Egypt?

he saved the nation, as his promise to abraham said he would

Not everyone believed, see my last post.

 

[Grandpa]

Yes He gives eternal life but when?

1 John 2:24As for you, let what you have heard from the beginning remain in you. If it does, you will also remain in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is the promise that He Himself made to us: eternal life.

Heb 10:36You need to persevere, so that after you have done the will of God, you will receive what He has promised.

Rom 2:6God “will repay each one according to his deeds.”a 7To those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life.

That's the difference between a believer and an un-believer.

The un-beleiver thinks he is earning Salvation.

The Believers thinks he has received a Gift.

The Believer knows that God will not take this Gift away because of his "lack" of performance because it wasn't given for his performance to begin with.

The unbeliever thinks that if they stop doing what is required to earn salvation then they will lose it.

 

[Enxu]

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Same chapter

That verse has nothing to do with either faith or salvation.

 

[Enxu]

you ever read the story?

They never had faith, the complained when they left.

Yes I did. But they NEVER had faith? Really?

Exodus 14:21 When the Israelites saw the great power with which the LORD had defeated the Egyptians, they stood in awe of the LORD; and they had faith in the LORD and in his servant Moses.

Are you reading a different Bible?

 

[Grandpa]

That verse has nothing to do with either faith or salvation.

Right....

But the one you posted does...

Do you see the difference between believer and unbeliever? Faith and no faith?


Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

 

[gb9]

you ever read the story?

They never had faith, the complained when they left. They complained when they got to the river, They complained about the manna, They complained and talked Arron into building a Golden calf. They wanted so bad to go back to Egypt. where their true faith lay. they complained almost every day. ITS why they did not enter. God did the work to free them, but they rejected his work.

How you think they were ever saved is beyond me

and, keep in mind, after all the complaining and rebellion and unbelief, that God STILL took them to the Promised Land.

God took them there, they refused to go into it. God does what He always does. He keeps His promises .

 

[Enxu]

The un-beleiver thinks he is earning Salvation.

The unbeliever thinks that if they stop doing what is required to earn salvation then they will lose it.

Unfortunately none of that is true about us. We never believed we are earning salvation to begin with. We do what is required because we love Jesus. Carry on.

 

[Enxu]

and, keep in mind, after all the complaining and rebellion and unbelief, that God STILL took them to the Promised Land.

God took them there, they refused to go into it. God does what He always does. He keeps His promises .

Wrong. An entire generation died in the wilderness due to disbelief. Their sons and daughters went in. God does not break His promises yes, but neither does He save those who stopped believing.

 

[gb9]

Unfortunately none of that is true about us. Carry on.

but you do try to earn it.

it could not be more clear, salvation is a gift. if one does not receive it as a gift, them it is NOT a gift.

real life example- if i give you a $100 gift card, and you insist on paying me back a portion of that, then it no longer a gift.

see how that works.

 

[Enxu]

Right....

But the one you posted does...

Do you see the difference between believer and unbeliever? Faith and no faith?


Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Yeah because you can’t prove what youre saying therefore we are unbelievers. LOL

 

[Noose]

That's the difference between a believer and an un-believer.

The un-beleiver thinks he is earning Salvation.

The Believers thinks he has received a Gift.

The Believer knows that God will not take this Gift away because of his "lack" of performance because it wasn't given for his performance to begin with.

The unbeliever thinks that if they stop doing what is required to earn salvation then they will lose it.

You can not explain this can you?

Rom 2:6God “will repay each one according to his deeds.”a 7To those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life.

 

[Enxu]

but you do try to earn it.

it could not be more clear, salvation is a gift. if one does not receive it as a gift, them it is NOT a gift.

real life example- if i give you a $100 gift card, and you insist on paying me back a portion of that, then it no longer a gift.

see how that works.

If you love Me, you will obey My Commandments - words of Jesus

Is obedience earning salvation in your eyes? If yes, Jesus Himself taught it.

 

[gb9]

Wrong. An entire generation died in the wilderness due to disbelief. Their sons and daughters went in. God does not break His promises yes, but neither does He save those who stopped believing.

what do you mean wrong?

did God take Israel to the border of Canaan or not?

did the people refuse to go in or not?

did they even go so far as to try to go back to Egypt or not??

 

[gb9]

If you love Me, you will obey My Commandments - words of Jesus

Is obedience earning salvation in your eyes? If yes, Jesus Himself taught it.

and what are His commands?

believe in the Name of the Son and love one another.

so, to believe is to obey.

 

[mailmandan]

I did, and asked a straightforward question. Why are you avoiding to answer it?

I wasn’t avoiding it and I did not say their faith must have been false. Similar language is spoken about the man who had his father’s wife in 1 Corinthians 5:1-5 who later repented in 2 Corinthians chapter 2? Nothing is mentioned about him "losing his salvation" either. Genuine faith in either case does not prove your argument about losing salvation.