Jonah Died and went to Hell
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Ecc 12. The dust return to dust...the spirit return to God.
Thats the basic...anything in between is debatable.
The spirit has knowledge/consciousness....like evil spirit when asked by Jesus gave the name Legion....
But let us reason the verses
Jon 2:1-2 KJV 1 Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly, 2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.
1. Where was Jonah when he prayed? In the belly of fish.
2. Why and what did he prayed? Because of his affliction, dead body feel no pain, soul resting when leaves the body. (Samuel resting witch of endor story).
Thats the basic...anything in between is debatable.
The spirit has knowledge/consciousness....like evil spirit when asked by Jesus gave the name Legion....
But let us reason the verses
Jon 2:1-2 KJV 1 Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly, 2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.
1. Where was Jonah when he prayed? In the belly of fish.
2. Why and what did he prayed? Because of his affliction, dead body feel no pain, soul resting when leaves the body. (Samuel resting witch of endor story).
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Did you mean hell is a place of eternal vengeance like in the dead can never get enough or the fire hot enough to serve a God of mercy?
Again God is a God of mercy .Eternal God is subject to the same law he sets aside for us. Judgment without mercy will be shown to any who does not have mercy. (James 2) He is not a God of eternal vengeance suffering for ever and ever.
God simply will not rejoice against his own judgment
Again it would make no sense to say he will have vengeance forever and ever. For what some it would seem called the self righteous would say. . . they should of listened they are getting their just reward .Turn up the fire.
James 2:13For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
The soul is the result of the contemplation of the mind as the heart of God. The soul is a means of communing as with two walking together in agreement.It is dead in unbelief . It has no spirit the essence of life.. needed for both the soul and the mind.
But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth. For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him. Job 23:13-14
In that way God is of one mind and always does whatsoever his soul pleases. For he performs that which he appoints to us (Job23) He has mercy on unbelievers. They will not rise of the last day .The idea of him violating his own law (James 2) is not a biblical teaching.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
The letter of the law that was violated corrupted the whole body, soul, and Spirit. The idea it only corrupted the flesh is teaching of reincarnation.
The parable of the rich man and Lazarus as to its context is. Is there any other source of faith by which we could believe God other than as it is written . Lazarus's hope was as the pagan religions do through necromancy. . communing with the dead as workers with familiar spirits .
After the Spirit of Christ replied that was a impossibility .The rich man insisted he sent a worker regardless. . Jesus said twice to emphasize the law. if they do not hear the gospel as in all things written in the law and the prophets the two witness of God signified by Moses and Elias. Then they still have no faith to believe if one did. the Son of man demonstration did how their unbelief.
Its not about dead people that do not die. That's more of a Hollywood thingamajig .
In both accounts Jonas and Jesus. Clearly by reasoning of a living suffering they experienced the pangs of hell .Neither one died or held their breath for three days. A living sacrifice, not a dead sacrifice
Jonah 2 King James Version (KJV) Then Jonah prayed unto the Lord his God out of the fish's belly, And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.
It does not get any clearer. "belly of the whale". . "belly of hell" literally suffering three days in the "heart of the earth"
Again God is a God of mercy .Eternal God is subject to the same law he sets aside for us. Judgment without mercy will be shown to any who does not have mercy. (James 2) He is not a God of eternal vengeance suffering for ever and ever.
God simply will not rejoice against his own judgment
Again it would make no sense to say he will have vengeance forever and ever. For what some it would seem called the self righteous would say. . . they should of listened they are getting their just reward .Turn up the fire.
James 2:13For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
The soul is the result of the contemplation of the mind as the heart of God. The soul is a means of communing as with two walking together in agreement.It is dead in unbelief . It has no spirit the essence of life.. needed for both the soul and the mind.
But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth. For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him. Job 23:13-14
In that way God is of one mind and always does whatsoever his soul pleases. For he performs that which he appoints to us (Job23) He has mercy on unbelievers. They will not rise of the last day .The idea of him violating his own law (James 2) is not a biblical teaching.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
The letter of the law that was violated corrupted the whole body, soul, and Spirit. The idea it only corrupted the flesh is teaching of reincarnation.
The parable of the rich man and Lazarus as to its context is. Is there any other source of faith by which we could believe God other than as it is written . Lazarus's hope was as the pagan religions do through necromancy. . communing with the dead as workers with familiar spirits .
After the Spirit of Christ replied that was a impossibility .The rich man insisted he sent a worker regardless. . Jesus said twice to emphasize the law. if they do not hear the gospel as in all things written in the law and the prophets the two witness of God signified by Moses and Elias. Then they still have no faith to believe if one did. the Son of man demonstration did how their unbelief.
Its not about dead people that do not die. That's more of a Hollywood thingamajig .
In both accounts Jonas and Jesus. Clearly by reasoning of a living suffering they experienced the pangs of hell .Neither one died or held their breath for three days. A living sacrifice, not a dead sacrifice
Jonah 2 King James Version (KJV) Then Jonah prayed unto the Lord his God out of the fish's belly, And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.
It does not get any clearer. "belly of the whale". . "belly of hell" literally suffering three days in the "heart of the earth"
I have covered a few things. What would be the first things that seems different?
Are you saying the soul as to the corrupted mind does not perish along with the spirit that returns to the Father? rember the dead know nothing . Their memory departs as in universal Alzheimer's, corruption... the wage of sin when they take their last breath .
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
The wage of sin is eternal damnation never to rise to new spirit life. Those who are freely given a new spirit and heart and the mind of Christ will rise on the last day .
Are you saying the soul as to the corrupted mind does not perish along with the spirit that returns to the Father? rember the dead know nothing . Their memory departs as in universal Alzheimer's, corruption... the wage of sin when they take their last breath .
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
The wage of sin is eternal damnation never to rise to new spirit life. Those who are freely given a new spirit and heart and the mind of Christ will rise on the last day .
No, Psalm 40 is David's deliverance while in this life.
Job 33 speaks to how to keep ones self free of the pit. A teaching to the living.
The Book of Jonah, one of the minor prophet books we should note, and chapter 2 is Jonah's prophecies. The whale vomiting Jonah on dry land is not Jonah arriving at Nineveh ,as God had told him to travel there in the beginning, because Nineveh is located on the Tigris.
Where are the verses that say the living are able to enter Sheol?
Jonah was dead. David was not. Nor was Job, just to throw that in there.
Consider the comparison. Huge storm, Jonah thrown overboard by those on the ship thinking it would save them from the storm, Jonah swallowed by a great fish, some say whale, but it was the belly of Sheol, where he stayed for three days as one dead, think Jesus there and His three days in the tomb, the body dead, the spirit departed to minister unto those in Sheol, then he's vomited on the dry land and seemingly learns not to doubt God's orders and do what he's told for the people of Nineveh. Which Jonah concedes to and does go there.
Then Jonah questions God's intention to spare the people of Nineveh. As if he didn't learn his lesson after being covered with big fish bile? The only prophet in the old testament sent by God directly to the Gentiles, and Jonah still has his own temperament and will?
Nineveh repented, God withheld his wrath.
Jonah is 4 chapters long.
Jonah's Anger and the Lord's Compassion
The Book of Jonah chapter 4 But it displeased Jonah exceedingly,[a] and he was angry. 2 And he prayed to the Lord and said, “O Lord, is not this what I said when I was yet in my country? That is why I made haste to flee to Tarshish; for I knew that you are a gracious God and merciful, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love, and relenting from disaster. 3 Therefore now, O Lord, please take my life from me, for it is better for me to die than to live.” 4 And the Lord said, “Do you do well to be angry?”
5 Jonah went out of the city and sat to the east of the city and made a booth for himself there. He sat under it in the shade, till he should see what would become of the city. 6 Now the Lord God appointed a plant[b] and made it come up over Jonah, that it might be a shade over his head, to save him from his discomfort.[c] So Jonah was exceedingly glad because of the plant. 7 But when dawn came up the next day, God appointed a worm that attacked the plant, so that it withered. 8 When the sun rose, God appointed a scorching east wind, and the sun beat down on the head of Jonah so that he was faint. And he asked that he might die and said, “It is better for me to die than to live.” 9 But God said to Jonah, “Do you do well to be angry for the plant?” And he said, “Yes, I do well to be angry, angry enough to die.” 10 And the Lord said, “You pity the plant, for which you did not labor, nor did you make it grow, which came into being in a night and perished in a night. 11 And should not I pity Nineveh, that great city, in which there are more than 120,000 persons who do not know their right hand from their left, and also much cattle?”
Footnotes:
To think Jonah was alive as himself in Sheol one has to show those scriptures that inform us the full living flesh, human with their soul, is able to go to the place of the dead, and then return back to life. And when we are told the Rephaim, the spirits of the departed dead, reside there.
Job 33 speaks to how to keep ones self free of the pit. A teaching to the living.
The Book of Jonah, one of the minor prophet books we should note, and chapter 2 is Jonah's prophecies. The whale vomiting Jonah on dry land is not Jonah arriving at Nineveh ,as God had told him to travel there in the beginning, because Nineveh is located on the Tigris.
Where are the verses that say the living are able to enter Sheol?
Jonah was dead. David was not. Nor was Job, just to throw that in there.
Consider the comparison. Huge storm, Jonah thrown overboard by those on the ship thinking it would save them from the storm, Jonah swallowed by a great fish, some say whale, but it was the belly of Sheol, where he stayed for three days as one dead, think Jesus there and His three days in the tomb, the body dead, the spirit departed to minister unto those in Sheol, then he's vomited on the dry land and seemingly learns not to doubt God's orders and do what he's told for the people of Nineveh. Which Jonah concedes to and does go there.
Then Jonah questions God's intention to spare the people of Nineveh. As if he didn't learn his lesson after being covered with big fish bile? The only prophet in the old testament sent by God directly to the Gentiles, and Jonah still has his own temperament and will?
Nineveh repented, God withheld his wrath.
Jonah is 4 chapters long.
Jonah's Anger and the Lord's Compassion
The Book of Jonah chapter 4 But it displeased Jonah exceedingly,[a] and he was angry. 2 And he prayed to the Lord and said, “O Lord, is not this what I said when I was yet in my country? That is why I made haste to flee to Tarshish; for I knew that you are a gracious God and merciful, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love, and relenting from disaster. 3 Therefore now, O Lord, please take my life from me, for it is better for me to die than to live.” 4 And the Lord said, “Do you do well to be angry?”
5 Jonah went out of the city and sat to the east of the city and made a booth for himself there. He sat under it in the shade, till he should see what would become of the city. 6 Now the Lord God appointed a plant[b] and made it come up over Jonah, that it might be a shade over his head, to save him from his discomfort.[c] So Jonah was exceedingly glad because of the plant. 7 But when dawn came up the next day, God appointed a worm that attacked the plant, so that it withered. 8 When the sun rose, God appointed a scorching east wind, and the sun beat down on the head of Jonah so that he was faint. And he asked that he might die and said, “It is better for me to die than to live.” 9 But God said to Jonah, “Do you do well to be angry for the plant?” And he said, “Yes, I do well to be angry, angry enough to die.” 10 And the Lord said, “You pity the plant, for which you did not labor, nor did you make it grow, which came into being in a night and perished in a night. 11 And should not I pity Nineveh, that great city, in which there are more than 120,000 persons who do not know their right hand from their left, and also much cattle?”
Footnotes:
- [a]Jonah 4:1 Hebrew it was exceedingly evil to Jonah
- Jonah 4:6 Hebrew qiqayon, probably the castor oil plant; also verses 7, 9, 10
[*][c]Jonah 4:6 Or his evil
To think Jonah was alive as himself in Sheol one has to show those scriptures that inform us the full living flesh, human with their soul, is able to go to the place of the dead, and then return back to life. And when we are told the Rephaim, the spirits of the departed dead, reside there.
This summary is a lot clearer thank you. My belief and yours do not align on this. There is lots of scriptural support for those who are in torment in Sheol/Hades. And this will lead to the lake of fire on the Day of Judgement. I think you may be rowing against the current in terms of conventional Christian belief on this one.
KJV is known for shall we say translation errors? The earlier scriptures do not use the word, Hell. They use Sheol, or Sho'l. As in the Contemporary Jewish Version.
The Book of Jonah chapter 2 Adonai prepared a huge fish to swallow Yonah; and Yonah was in the belly of the fish for three days and three nights. 2 (1) From the belly of the fish Yonah prayed to Adonai his God; 3 (2) he said,
“Out of my distress I called to Adonai,
and he answered me;
from the belly of Sh’ol I cried,
and you heard my voice.....
Orthodox Jewish Bible Version. The Book of Jonah chapter 2 Then Yonah davened unto Hashem Elohav from out of the dag’s belly, 2 And said, I cried by reason of mine tzoros unto Hashem, He heard me; out of the belly of Sheol cried I, and Thou heardest my voice....
Meaning of, the dag's belly
The NAS Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon
Strong's Number: 1709Original WordWord Origin
gdfrom (01711)
Transliterated WordTDNT Entry
DagTWOT - 401a
Phonetic SpellingParts of Speech
dawg Noun Masculine
Definition
NAS Word Usage - Total: 18
fish 17, fishing 1
The meaning of Sheol
The Book of Jonah chapter 2 Adonai prepared a huge fish to swallow Yonah; and Yonah was in the belly of the fish for three days and three nights. 2 (1) From the belly of the fish Yonah prayed to Adonai his God; 3 (2) he said,
“Out of my distress I called to Adonai,
and he answered me;
from the belly of Sh’ol I cried,
and you heard my voice.....
Orthodox Jewish Bible Version. The Book of Jonah chapter 2 Then Yonah davened unto Hashem Elohav from out of the dag’s belly, 2 And said, I cried by reason of mine tzoros unto Hashem, He heard me; out of the belly of Sheol cried I, and Thou heardest my voice....
Meaning of, the dag's belly
The NAS Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon
Strong's Number: 1709Original WordWord Origin
gdfrom (01711)
Transliterated WordTDNT Entry
DagTWOT - 401a
Phonetic SpellingParts of Speech
dawg Noun Masculine
Definition
- fish
NAS Word Usage - Total: 18
fish 17, fishing 1
The meaning of Sheol