All things James

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J

John146

Senior Member
#241
Jan 13, 2016
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#241
Absolutely said:
The same Holy Spirit wrote the entire bible.

He did not give 2 gospels to 2 groups.

You guys claim the Holy Spirit inspired peter and others to proclaim a different gospel.

But to think peter and co. Preached another gospel to the jews,and then they get saved INSPITE OF the Holy Spirits false leading????

AND THEN WHAT?? Are they then somehow enlightened to stay away from peters false gospel??????
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The same Holy Spirit wrote the entire bible. Agreed

He did not give 2 gospels to 2 groups. Only one gospel unto salvation, several good news messages though

You guys claim the Holy Spirit inspired peter and others to proclaim a different gospel. Gospel of the kingdom is not for salvation, but the good news of Israel’s promised kingdom on earth. It was at hand in Jesus’ day.

But to think peter and co. Preached another gospel to the jews,and then they get saved INSPITE OF the Holy Spirits false leading????

AND THEN WHAT?? Are they then somehow enlightened to stay away from peters false gospel??????

The problem with many comes when they see the word gospel, most always apply it the the d,b,r for sin and eternal salvation. This is false.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#242
Jan 13, 2016
17,176
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#242
Absolutely said:
So did paul keep the commandments?
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Not after his conversion. He never went to the priest as the law commanded. He didn’t care about keeping the sabbath or not eating certain things.
 
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presidente

Senior Member
#243
May 29, 2013
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#243
John146 said:
In the tribulation, one has to live by faith and keep the commandments of God. James is warning them not to have this faith with respect of persons. In the tribulation, they must rely on each other and have all things in common to endure to the end.

Here’s how a tribulation saint must live:

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
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Are you trying to argue that the epistle was for 'the tribulation' in the past, the future, or something else?
 
Tinkerbell725

Tinkerbell725

Senior Member
#244
Jul 19, 2014
4,216
1,179
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Philippines Age 40
#244
John146 said:
Right on! Where did you learn to rightly divide the word? Just curious.
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The Holy Spirit led me to youtube, then I studied the Word deeper and was enlightened. I enjoy reading the Bible now than before because I can see more clearly. James 2:24 is confusing and some people will attempt to explain it with a very long detailed and more confusing explanation like a thesis, when you can just get it easily by rightly dividing. I don't think it is God's will to make a single verse that complicated. There is no other way around it but to rightly divide.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#245
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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#245
Tinkerbell725 said:
How about this verse? This sounds like works. Jesus must be preaching to the Jews and healing the sick because the Jews need proof to believe.


Matthew 7:21 KJV

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
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This is from God and it IS works. Man has spoken against working for the Lord, scripture does not do this.

Because of the fall of man brought on by the first man we are born in sin, and man born in sin cannot be sinless, cannot save himself. God in his mercy saved us through Christ. Sin is death, our works won't save us. God is against sin, and when we accept our righteousness through Christ we must also accept being against sin and work for righteousness. If you are not also against sin and death with the Lord, then you are no saved. This scripture is telling us this.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#246
Jan 13, 2016
17,176
3,700
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#246
presidente said:
Are you trying to argue that the epistle was for 'the tribulation' in the past, the future, or something else?
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Hebrews and James in particular...though we can glean many great life principles from these books, the doctrine for the Church is mostly found in Paul’s epistles.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#247
Jan 13, 2016
17,176
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#247
Tinkerbell725 said:
The Holy Spirit led me to youtube, then I studied the Word deeper and was enlightened. I enjoy reading the Bible now than before because I can see more clearly. James 2:24 is confusing and some people will attempt to explain it with a very long detailed and more confusing explanation like a thesis, when you can just get it easily by rightly dividing. I don't think it is God's will to make a single verse that complicated. There is no other way around it but to rightly divide.
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What a great story! Keep searching the scriptures.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#248
Jan 13, 2016
17,176
3,700
113
#248
Blik said:
This is from God and it IS works. Man has spoken against working for the Lord, scripture does not do this.

Because of the fall of man brought on by the first man we are born in sin, and man born in sin cannot be sinless, cannot save himself. God in his mercy saved us through Christ. Sin is death, our works won't save us. God is against sin, and when we accept our righteousness through Christ we must also accept being against sin and work for righteousness. If you are not also against sin and death with the Lord, then you are no saved. This scripture is telling us this.
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Agreed, but not applied to the Church but the Jews as their kingdom was at hand.
 
Tinkerbell725

Tinkerbell725

Senior Member
#249
Jul 19, 2014
4,216
1,179
113
Philippines Age 40
#249
Blik said:
This is from God and it IS works. Man has spoken against working for the Lord, scripture does not do this.

Because of the fall of man brought on by the first man we are born in sin, and man born in sin cannot be sinless, cannot save himself. God in his mercy saved us through Christ. Sin is death, our works won't save us. God is against sin, and when we accept our righteousness through Christ we must also accept being against sin and work for righteousness. If you are not also against sin and death with the Lord, then you are no saved. This scripture is telling us this.
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Works can save. Jesus Himself said those words. But He was speaking to the Jews not to me or you. I am saved by faith not by works because I am not a Jew and we are in the Church age.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#250
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
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#250
Tinkerbell725 said:
The Holy Spirit led me to youtube, then I studied the Word deeper and was enlightened. I enjoy reading the Bible now than before because I can see more clearly. James 2:24 is confusing and some people will attempt to explain it with a very long detailed and more confusing explanation like a thesis, when you can just get it easily by rightly dividing. I don't think it is God's will to make a single verse that complicated. There is no other way around it but to rightly divide.
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Yep, same here. For me, Les Feldick's bible study online and CR Stam's many books help to make the Bible so much more enjoyable to read.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#251
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
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#251
John146 said:
Agreed, but not applied to the Church but the Jews as their kingdom was at hand.
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Everything you read in scripture is colored by you dividing scripture up so you can ignore some if you want to. I read that God is a universal God, He is the same God for all people so you and I read the same scripture and it tells us completely different things. We find in scripture that God divides us by our faith, only, not by our parentage.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#252
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
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#252
Blik said:
Everything you read in scripture is colored by you dividing scripture up so you can ignore some if you want to. I read that God is a universal God, He is the same God for all people so you and I read the same scripture and it tells us completely different things. We find in scripture that God divides us by our faith, only, not by our parentage.
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How do you understand Matthew 10:5 then?
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#253
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
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#253
John146 said:
Not after his conversion. He never went to the priest as the law commanded. He didn’t care about keeping the sabbath or not eating certain things.
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Tinkerbell725 said:
Works can save. Jesus Himself said those words. But He was speaking to the Jews not to me or you. I am saved by faith not by works because I am not a Jew and we are in the Church age.
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The gospel was preached to those in paradise.
No one was ever saved by works.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#254
Jan 13, 2016
17,176
3,700
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#254
Absolutely said:
The gospel was preached to those in paradise.
No one was ever saved by works.
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That’s speculation, but I’ll go with it. You’re admitting those OT saints did not make it to Abraham’s bosom through the gospel. So how did they get there?
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#255
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#255
Guojing said:
How do you understand Matthew 10:5 then?
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I think we need to understand the entire history of Jew and gentile to see what God sees in the two. In the OT, to say gentile was to say heathen for there was no gentile nation that acknowledged the Lord. When a person did, like Ruth did, they were welcomed into the Jewish nation. We also know that God thought of the national nation of Israel was given a special mission, to show God to the world, and thought of separately for that with a special blessing. Christ said He was first for this nation, and second opened up salvation for the people who did not know Him: the gentiles.

But basically, through all that happened in the world, we need to keep in mind that our God is the same God who created all humanity. God is eternal, God is the very same as the God of the people who lived even before the flood.
 
Chris1975

Chris1975

Senior Member
#256
Apr 27, 2017
2,492
517
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#256
Guojing said:
How do you understand Matthew 10:5 then?
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You understand Matthew 10v5 with Matthew 22v8-9
8 Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy. 9 Therefore go into the highways, and as many as you find, invite to the wedding.’

It is still the same wedding. The invite had to be rejected (corporately) for the offer to open (corporately) to the Gentile nations.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#257
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
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#257
Chris1975 said:
You understand Matthew 10v5 with Matthew 22v8-9
8 Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy. 9 Therefore go into the highways, and as many as you find, invite to the wedding.’

It is still the same wedding. The invite had to be rejected (corporately) for the offer to open (corporately) to the Gentile nations.
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So its true that even Jesus separated people into Jews and Gentiles and excluded the latter from his ministry in the 4 Gospels.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#258
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#258
Blik said:
I think we need to understand the entire history of Jew and gentile to see what God sees in the two. In the OT, to say gentile was to say heathen for there was no gentile nation that acknowledged the Lord. When a person did, like Ruth did, they were welcomed into the Jewish nation. We also know that God thought of the national nation of Israel was given a special mission, to show God to the world, and thought of separately for that with a special blessing. Christ said He was first for this nation, and second opened up salvation for the people who did not know Him: the gentiles.

But basically, through all that happened in the world, we need to keep in mind that our God is the same God who created all humanity. God is eternal, God is the very same as the God of the people who lived even before the flood.
Click to expand...
So its true that even Jesus separated people into Jews and Gentiles and excluded the latter from his ministry in the 4 Gospels.

If Jesus himself know how to rightly divide the word then, I can't see how you can be so certain that scripture cannot be likewise divided.
 
Chris1975

Chris1975

Senior Member
#259
Apr 27, 2017
2,492
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#259
Guojing said:
So its true that even Jesus separated people into Jews and Gentiles and excluded the latter from his ministry in the 4 Gospels.
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Yes but not so quick there with your conclusions. Yes in terms of coming to His people, for the promises were to them. When they rejected Him, the Way was opened to the Gentiles.

But not in respect of the words spoken by the WORD. Jesus is the Word and the word applies to all. To everybody (Gentiles in this instance) who calls upon Jesus will be GRAFTED INTO THE VINE. We partake of the same root.

We cannot divorce His words from us Gentiles if you are grafted in.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#260
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
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#260
Chris1975 said:
Yes but not so quick there with your conclusions. Yes in terms of coming to His people, for the promises were to them. When they rejected Him, the Way was opened to the Gentiles.

But not in respect of the words spoken by the WORD. Jesus is the Word and the word applies to all. To everybody (Gentiles in this instance) who calls upon Jesus will be GRAFTED INTO THE VINE. We partake of the same root.

We cannot divorce His words from us Gentiles if you are grafted in.
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Jesus told the Jews had to keep the Law of Moses (Matthew 5), as you have made this your main contribution in this forum.

But Jesus told Paul to tell us Gentiles, (and the Jews who believed), that we are dead to the Law Romans 7:4

That is a very significant difference, don't you think?
 
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