Not By Works

[JohnW34]

Thanks for responding.

If you do not mind I would like to give two examples that maybe you could expound.

What about an addict who struggles to overcome but hates it and prays daily for help. Who truly wants to be set free?

What about those who feel they have to work for salvation?

Whatever is not of faith is a sin.

Walking the straight path matters, especially to the addict. Saying addiction is just to drive you to Christ is just an excuse for defeat and exusing a crooked path. Taking regular injections to control chemical addiction maybe a right compromise, because the harm is sin associated with addiction, rather than addiction itself. I can be addicted to chocolate and have no bad impacts.

 

[Rosemaryx]

Maybe you are talking about how you respond to the posts, rather than what they are feeling.
Believers I meet in real life love the Lord, want to share the joy He brings, overflow with generosity and help.
Some are security minded, some not.

Rock is building on Jesus and His commands, sand is ignoring Jesus and living in the world.
Fear is not what I hear from most, rather who they love most, Jesus or the world.
The gruffest people I know find forgiveness the hardest thing possible.

Psalm 95:1-3
Come, let us sing for joy to the LORD; let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation.
Let us come before him with thanksgiving and extol him with music and song.
For the LORD is the great God, the great King above all gods.

Amen...Nevertheless , the fear and ripping down what our LORD and Savior has done for us is not pleasing to God , it is distrusting God , if we could lose our Salvation , if it was up to me , I would of lost it the day I was saved , but Jesus said "It is finished " we are NEW creation in Christ , the old has passed , the new begun , we will all fail God everyday , in thought , word or deed , yet the Holy Spirit nudges us to come forward and be cleansed under the ever living water...

Another thing I see alot of people who believe we can lose what God has given us , they never post about the comforter , the Counselor , the Advocate who stands before our Father and pleads our case...

There are people who " claim " to know Christ , but when the storms come , they go back to the world , because they were never in Him...

 

[EleventhHour]

Actually 1 john chapter 3

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

There is an overarching point he is making here.... at this point in time he is referencing a sinner.
Later he will state how a saint should not be living like a sinner.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Okay either we are talking James or John?

Perhaps you missed my post not saving faith in view.

Both, and you can add paul in there too

if you just answer my question about can a child of God live in sin, I can explain why I asked it,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There is an overarching point he is making here.... at this point in time he is referencing a sinner.
Later he will state how a saint should not be living like a sinner.

What?

he is refenerencing the difference between a child of faith who has been saved as a child of God and a nonbeliever who has never met God, thus is unable to do righteous things, but continually lives in sin.

 

[EleventhHour]

Both, and you can add paul in there too

if you just answer my question about can a child of God live in sin, I can explain why I asked it,

You are not defining what it means to live in sin.

A born again believer cannot live in sin in the sense that Jesus within cannot sin (John's point)... but yes the flesh will live in sin if we are not walking in the Spirit.

 

[BillG]

Walking the straight path matters, especially to the addict. Saying addiction is just to drive you to Christ is just an excuse for defeat and exusing a crooked path. Taking regular injections to control chemical addiction maybe a right compromise, because the harm is sin associated with addiction, rather than addiction itself. I can be addicted to chocolate and have no bad impacts.

Addiction is addiction regardless of its impact.

 

[EleventhHour]

What?

he is refenerencing the difference between a child of faith who has been saved as a child of God and a nonbeliever who has never met God, thus is unable to do righteous things, but continually lives in sin.

Okay we have talked also about the dual nature .. you do not agree... Please let us just leave it there.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There is an overarching point he is making here.... at this point in time he is referencing a sinner.
Later he will state how a saint should not be living like a sinner.

so you think a child of God can live in sin, even though John said whoever does has never seen or known God? You scare me sometimes sis

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Addiction is addiction regardless of its impact.

And if we looked deep inside, we all have addictions which are harmful to us and others

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are not defining what it means to live in sin.

A born again believer cannot live in sin in the sense that Jesus within cannot sin (John's point)... but yes the flesh will live in sin if we are not walking in the Spirit.

No That was not johns point, his point is a man of faith who has come to the point of humility he admits his sin and comes to grace, is unable to live in sin because he has been born of God, Ie, it’s impossible

he does not say they will never sin, he said they can no longer live in it.

 

[BillG]

No That was not johns point, his point is a man of faith who has come to the point of humility he admits his sin and comes to grace, is unable to live in sin because he has been born of God, Ie, it’s impossible

he does not say they will never sin, he said they can no longer live in it.

Or not want to live in it?

 

[EleventhHour]

No That was not johns point, his point is a man of faith who has come to the point of humility he admits his sin and comes to grace, is unable to live in sin because he has been born of God, Ie, it’s impossible

he does not say they will never sin, he said they can no longer live in it.

Well you have a problem with this verse then if you do not see the dual nature he is speaking to

Chapter 3 verse 9. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His seed remaineth in Him.....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Okay we have talked also about the dual nature .. you do not agree... Please let us just leave it there.

i can’t leave it.

you telling people that a person can be saved and NEVER have works (a changed life) is proving what they say, that you believe a person can be saved and live in sin.

thats not true.

a child of God who has living faith by definition is UNABLE to live in sin, thus by defenition, they have done works (a changed life through the power of God,)

thus by defenition, does not fall under the defenition of a person who claims to have faith yet has no works, even if in the end,they remain babes in Christ and never really does any works as most people define them

James is fighting a licentious Gospel, people who claim we can say a prayer, thus claim to have faith. And continue to live in sin and your still saved,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Or not want to live in it?

I am not talking about a particular sin

i am talking about a lifestyle.

a non believer lives a lifestyle of sin even if they are religious and go to church and appear righteous, if you look inside, they still live in continuous lifestyle of sin,

 

[EleventhHour]

You scare me sometimes sis

Boo!!!

Nothing I am stating is that radical it just does not align with Lordship salvation doctrine which so prevalent.

I am really done now.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well you have a problem with this verse then if you do not see the dual nature he is speaking to

Chapter 3 verse 9. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His seed remaineth in Him.....

No,, I have no problem with it, my whole point is based off this verse

no one who is born of God loves a habitual lifestyle of sin, the English text is misleading,he is not talking about induvidual sins, he would be contradicting himself remember, in 1 John 1:8 he said if we say we have no sin we are decieved

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Boo!!!

Nothing I am stating is that radical it just does not align with Lordship salvation doctrine which so prevalent.

I am really done now.

Omg

i am not preaching lordship salvation

why do people insist of trying to discuss scripture in order to fight doctrines and not just discuss the word.

no wonder you are unable to understand a thing I am saying

 

[EleventhHour]

i can’t leave it.

you telling people that a person can be saved and NEVER have works (a changed life) is proving what they say, that you believe a person can be saved and live in sin.

thats not true.

a child of God who has living faith by definition is UNABLE to live in sin, thus by defenition, they have done works (a changed life through the power of God,)

thus by defenition, does not fall under the defenition of a person who claims to have faith yet has no works, even if in the end,they remain babes in Christ and never really does any works as most people define them

James is fighting a licentious Gospel, people who claim we can say a prayer, thus claim to have faith. And continue to live in sin and your still saved,

Okay listen.. I respect you desire to discuss this so I will come back to it .. my cupboard is bare so I have to go out.

We have discussed this multiple times... I really do not know what else to say within the limitations of a discussion board.

Always going to they were never believers ( Mr John MacArthur theology) really creates a lot problems for OSAS and coming to grips with the fact that salvation is a gift no strings attached.

 

[EleventhHour]

Omg

i am not preaching lordship salvation

why do people insist of trying to discuss scripture in order to fight doctrines and not just discuss the word.

no wonder you are unable to understand a thing I am saying

Maybe so... it lines up very well with Lordship salvation...... I have read many MacArthur's books, similar line of reasoning and interpretation.