Apostasy 101
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Just my own interpretation, huh? Far from what the Bible teaches? So you reject justification, sanctification and glorification? There is only justification? 
If it's merely my own personal interpretation, then why are there so many articles written on the 3 tenses of salvation? Feel free to google "3 tenses to salvation" and watch how many articles come up.
You turn salvation into probation and receiving eternal life into type 2 works salvation. The one who stands victorious in the end is the same one who truly has been saved through faith. Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. *ALL of them.
I am not full of contradictions. You are just full of confusion. Those who have been saved from the penalty of sin are still being saved from the power of sin because believers are going through the process of ongoing sanctification (work out your salvation) throughout their lifetime. It's not work for your salvation as works-salvationists teach. 1 Corinthians 6:11 - Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. That is positional sanctification, yet there is also progressive sanctification in which the reality of that holiness becomes more and more evident in our actions, words, thoughts, attitudes, and motives.
1 Thessalonians 4:3-4, - For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain (present tense) from sexual immorality; that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor. So becoming washed, sanctified and justified in Christ is a one time event, yet abstaining from sexual immorality and becoming more holy in our behavior is not a one time event. Here is how I see it. The believer possess a positional, judicial standing of righteousness in Christ and, second, a remaining need for practical, progressive holiness in our behavior. We will reach ultimate or final sanctification when we receive our glorified bodies.
You just don't get it because you read the scriptures through the lens of works salvation.
You confuse descriptive passages of scripture with prescriptive passages of scripture, which a common error made by works-salvationists.
In Revelation 14:12, the Amplified Bible reads - Here is [encouragement for] the steadfast endurance of the saints (God’s people), those who habitually keep God’s commandments and their faith in Jesus. The NASB reads - Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus. (descriptive of genuine believers) 13 And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, “Write, ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!’” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them.”
You really stress "remain" to imply it's such a difficult burden to do so, which is typical from the mindset of type 2 works salvation. Also, their deeds follow them as the fruit of salvation, but not as the means of salvation. I usually hear SDA's quote Revelation 14:12 and stress commandment keeping as the means of obtaining salvation.
BTW did you ever come to understand that from the context of Romans 5:18 all men in Adam are condemned, and all men in Christ are justified? I will NEVER forget our conversation on Romans 5:18 in which you misinterpreted that verse to mean that one righteous act by Christ resulted in justification and life (automatically) for all people (including unbelievers). I almost fell out of my chair when I first heard you say that!
https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...tion-can-be-lost.185786/page-162#post-4021360
If it's merely my own personal interpretation, then why are there so many articles written on the 3 tenses of salvation? Feel free to google "3 tenses to salvation" and watch how many articles come up.You turn salvation into probation and receiving eternal life into type 2 works salvation. The one who stands victorious in the end is the same one who truly has been saved through faith. Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. *ALL of them.
I am not full of contradictions. You are just full of confusion. Those who have been saved from the penalty of sin are still being saved from the power of sin because believers are going through the process of ongoing sanctification (work out your salvation) throughout their lifetime. It's not work for your salvation as works-salvationists teach. 1 Corinthians 6:11 - Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. That is positional sanctification, yet there is also progressive sanctification in which the reality of that holiness becomes more and more evident in our actions, words, thoughts, attitudes, and motives.
1 Thessalonians 4:3-4, - For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain (present tense) from sexual immorality; that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor. So becoming washed, sanctified and justified in Christ is a one time event, yet abstaining from sexual immorality and becoming more holy in our behavior is not a one time event. Here is how I see it. The believer possess a positional, judicial standing of righteousness in Christ and, second, a remaining need for practical, progressive holiness in our behavior. We will reach ultimate or final sanctification when we receive our glorified bodies.
You just don't get it because you read the scriptures through the lens of works salvation.
You confuse descriptive passages of scripture with prescriptive passages of scripture, which a common error made by works-salvationists.
In Revelation 14:12, the Amplified Bible reads - Here is [encouragement for] the steadfast endurance of the saints (God’s people), those who habitually keep God’s commandments and their faith in Jesus. The NASB reads - Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus. (descriptive of genuine believers) 13 And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, “Write, ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!’” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them.”
You really stress "remain" to imply it's such a difficult burden to do so, which is typical from the mindset of type 2 works salvation. Also, their deeds follow them as the fruit of salvation, but not as the means of salvation. I usually hear SDA's quote Revelation 14:12 and stress commandment keeping as the means of obtaining salvation.
BTW did you ever come to understand that from the context of Romans 5:18 all men in Adam are condemned, and all men in Christ are justified? I will NEVER forget our conversation on Romans 5:18 in which you misinterpreted that verse to mean that one righteous act by Christ resulted in justification and life (automatically) for all people (including unbelievers). I almost fell out of my chair when I first heard you say that!
https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...tion-can-be-lost.185786/page-162#post-4021360
Well that's a start. Keep going.
Only the 4th soil did persevere and produced fruit. What does that tell you about the other 3 soils which did neither?
The mistake you are making is assuming that ALL belief is the same. *Unlike saving belief, shallow, temporary belief is not rooted in a regenerate heart. How can no depth of earth, no root, no moisture, no fruit, represent saving belief? Also the same Greek word for believe "pisteuo" is used in James 2:19, in which we read that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they are not saved. So clearly, NOT all belief is the same.
John has portrayed people who "believe" (at least to some extent) but are clearly not saved. There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that "falls short of firmly rooted, consummated belief resulting in salvation." As we see in John 2:23-25, in which their belief was superficial in nature and Jesus would not entrust/commit Himself to them.
Also, in John 8:31-59, where the Jews who were said to have "believed in him" turn out to be slaves to sin, indifferent to the words of Jesus’, children of the devil, liars, accused Jesus of having a demon and were guilty of setting out to stone and kill the one they have professed to believe in. We can see at best, these Jews believed in Him (based on their own misconceptions and expectations) of Jesus, yet upon gaining further knowledge about Jesus through His words, we see they did not truly "believe unto salvation" and become children of God (John 1:12; 3:18) but were instead children of the devil.
BTW: I remember having this conversion with Ralph (who many people suspect is YOU, yet when asked if you are Ralph, you simply dodge the question, which speaks volumes).
I clearly proved my point from scripture that NOT all belief is the same, yet those in the nosas camp cannot seem to grasp this or refuse to grasp this in order to preserve their biased, predetermined nosas understanding of the parable. Roman Catholics and Mormons would strongly agree with your biased interpretation. No red flag, huh?
More bias from the nosas camp. The Galatians were getting side tracked by legalistic teachers, which does not mean they permanently stopped believing. Paul did not say they lost their salvation and it was all over for them, which seems to be the biased opinion from the nosas camp. Your obsession with attacking the osas doctrine is reaching the point of nausea and your arguments remind me of the same arguments I heard several years ago while still attending the Roman Catholic church.
Only the 4th soil did persevere and produced fruit. What does that tell you about the other 3 soils which did neither?
The mistake you are making is assuming that ALL belief is the same. *Unlike saving belief, shallow, temporary belief is not rooted in a regenerate heart. How can no depth of earth, no root, no moisture, no fruit, represent saving belief?
Also the same Greek word for believe "pisteuo" is used in James 2:19, in which we read that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they are not saved. So clearly, NOT all belief is the same.John has portrayed people who "believe" (at least to some extent) but are clearly not saved. There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that "falls short of firmly rooted, consummated belief resulting in salvation." As we see in John 2:23-25, in which their belief was superficial in nature and Jesus would not entrust/commit Himself to them.
Also, in John 8:31-59, where the Jews who were said to have "believed in him" turn out to be slaves to sin, indifferent to the words of Jesus’, children of the devil, liars, accused Jesus of having a demon and were guilty of setting out to stone and kill the one they have professed to believe in. We can see at best, these Jews believed in Him (based on their own misconceptions and expectations) of Jesus, yet upon gaining further knowledge about Jesus through His words, we see they did not truly "believe unto salvation" and become children of God (John 1:12; 3:18) but were instead children of the devil.
BTW: I remember having this conversion with Ralph (who many people suspect is YOU, yet when asked if you are Ralph, you simply dodge the question, which speaks volumes).
I clearly proved my point from scripture that NOT all belief is the same, yet those in the nosas camp cannot seem to grasp this or refuse to grasp this in order to preserve their biased, predetermined nosas understanding of the parable. Roman Catholics and Mormons would strongly agree with your biased interpretation. No red flag, huh?
More bias from the nosas camp. The Galatians were getting side tracked by legalistic teachers, which does not mean they permanently stopped believing. Paul did not say they lost their salvation and it was all over for them, which seems to be the biased opinion from the nosas camp. Your obsession with attacking the osas doctrine is reaching the point of nausea and your arguments remind me of the same arguments I heard several years ago while still attending the Roman Catholic church.
Good word for it.
Agree Galatians were getting side tracked, the did not loose their salvation.
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Just my own interpretation, huh? Far from what the Bible teaches? So you reject justification, sanctification and glorification? There is only justification? If it's merely my own personal interpretation, then why are there so many articles written on the 3 tenses of salvation? Feel free to google "3 tenses to salvation" and watch how many articles come up.
You turn salvation into probation and receiving eternal life into type 2 works salvation. The one who stands victorious in the end is the same one who truly has been saved through faith. Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. *ALL of them.
If it's merely my own personal interpretation, then why are there so many articles written on the 3 tenses of salvation? Feel free to google "3 tenses to salvation" and watch how many articles come up.You turn salvation into probation and receiving eternal life into type 2 works salvation. The one who stands victorious in the end is the same one who truly has been saved through faith. Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. *ALL of them.
"..whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified." Are you glorified? why not? look at the tense. That's why i said, you can not choose the first and the second and spare the last for future when the same tense has been used for all of them.
There's a very simple understanding for this, these words are applicable to those that will stand victorious at the end. Only those will have been justified/ reconciled/ redeemed/ sanctified/glorified- saved. Even the name itself (saved) is self explanatory. You can not be saved and still not saved. Saved is the outcome of a process, the very end.
If you have been saved from the penalty of sin, there's nothing more that needs to be done because you have already been saved.
It is not possible to be saved from the penalty of sin and still be in the process of being saved from the power of sin, it simply means the first salvation is of no effect and you have to undergo these process of being saved from the power of sin.
Q. What can possibly happen if one is not sanctified (saved from the power of sin) after they have been justified (saved from the penalty of sin)?
I can't dwell over this, it's just too lengthy.
BTW did you ever come to understand that from the context of Romans 5:18 all men in Adam are condemned, and all men in Christ are justified? I will NEVER forget our conversation on Romans 5:18 in which you misinterpreted that verse to mean that one righteous act by Christ resulted in justification and life (automatically) for all people (including unbelievers). I almost fell out of my chair when I first heard you say that!
https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...tion-can-be-lost.185786/page-162#post-4021360
https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...tion-can-be-lost.185786/page-162#post-4021360
Did Adam's one act of trespass bring condemnation to all? Also (in the same manner), Christ's one act of righteousness brought justification for all, not just a few people.
I'm not against the way you worded that. There's plenty of space between doing works and having a holier-than-thou attitude.
Honestly, this next question is kind of a separate topic but do you consider it a holier-than-thou attitude if a Christian suggests he/she is likely to go to heaven at the same time they think their non-Christian friend is headed towards hell?
That's meant to be a friendly question, not argumentative.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Honestly, this next question is kind of a separate topic but do you consider it a holier-than-thou attitude if a Christian suggests he/she is likely to go to heaven at the same time they think their non-Christian friend is headed towards hell?
That's meant to be a friendly question, not argumentative.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby